Attaching stone veneer to masonry walls,

[Dave C]

I am a ceramic tile installer and have done some stone masonry on request. I have always attached the stones to plywood fireplaces using a wire and drywall screw to hold the stone while the mortar dries then cutting the wires mortaring between the stones later. I have a guy who insits I do the foundation to his house as he likes all the work I have done for him so far. I said I would consider it but I am curious how stones are secured in place on concrete walls untill the mortar drys. Can anyone answer that? Also I am not sure what rate to charge the guy. I get $3.00 a sf average to install ceramic but don't know if that is applicable to stone. I did charge more per square foot the last time I did this but I am also wondering what the "average" rate per sf is for stone work. The guy is a super nice guy and I don't want to overcharge him.
Thank You
Dave C

Also the $3.00 sf installation is for labor only. Are there any websites that give detailed instructions for stone veneer on concrete?
Thanks again

[Tom R]

I'm much more of a carpenter than a mason, but I've applied the 'lick-em and stick-em' stones to concrete a few times. You don't need the wire because concrete is porous, your mortar should have no problem 'sticking' (unless the wall has been painted, you would need to sandblast). Just slightly dampen your wall as you go (so the 'dry' wall doesn't wick the moisture from your mix), Start at the bottom, and grout (same mix) as you go. The grout will hold the stones in place.

Square foot pricing, I have no idea, I just look at the job and 'best-guess' the time it will take. The 'randomness' slows the process, that's for sure.

Some of our 'masonry' experts are sure to know better, they may even suggest a 'bonding' agent.

[Rich]

For real stone against a concrete wall we're shooting on ties on the wall that get mortared into the fill and in some areas between the stone. I'll see if I can get a picture next week before they finish it up.

[Dave C]

Thanks for these responses. I would be very interested in seeing the pictures.
Thanks again
Dave

[rgramjet]

How about real stones against a Tyveked 1/2" osb wall? Whats the thinnest veneer I can go with?

[Rich]

That all depends on the stone going on the wall. With real stones you'll need some type of brick ledge. Anyway - the situation we have is very similar to yours rgramjet - except we have 3/4" tyveked wall with either a 5x5x3/8" galvanized angle lagged to the wall or a brick ledge that has been poured into the foundation.

[rgramjet]

Hey Rich, is the 5x5x3/8" angle lagged below grade or just on grade?

[Rich]

We've tried to keep it just a bit above grade.. our veneer (if you can call it that) is 6" thick average. We've gone with the 5x5 so it wouldn't show beyond the stone and galvanized for longevity.

[rgramjet]

What are your thoughts on the "thin" veneers? I believe they run from 1-2 inches in thickness.

[Rich]

It just depends on what look you want.. the thin veneers are pretty much the same. If the weight isn't too high - you could probably do a scratch coat with mortar and metal lath and stick them on with mortar.. as long as each individual stone doesn't get too large you should be ok.

[roger g]

Hey Dave, that $3.00 a sq ft is that for big jobs where you do hundreds of square feet at a time or does that also include say about 50 square feet for an average bathtub with all the cutting and stuff?
just curious.
It takes me an hour or so just measuring, adjusting and scratching my butt but then again I don't do it that often. Laying tile that is.


roger

[eifs]

Cultured stone can be applied over any masonry substrate. It doesn't matter if its concrete block, brick, cement, or even drywall in interior applications. After all, it is basically a foam rock, or masonite or something similar. On interior applications I've even used construction adhesive to stick onto the surface. Just make sure the surface is free from dust and paint.
For exterior applications I nail metal lath to the wall as if I were doing stucco and apply a scratch coat just like stucco (2 1/2 parts sand to 1 part cement) to the metal lath. After scratching the wall with my wall scracther thingy magiggy or whatever I have handy, such as a wooden block with nails driven through them or even a small garden rake the wall must cure for 24 hours.

A. Mix rich mortar (2 parts sand to 1 part cement) to a consistency similar to oatmeal.

B. Figure out how your stones will be laid out before you start sticking the sticking the wall.

C. With all due respect to Tom Rs' opinion I think it is best to start the wall from the top and work down. It makes for a cleaner job and you won't have to clean up any of the stones later on.

D. Lay the mortar on wall approximately 1/2" in thickness.

E. You then apply a thin coat of mortar onto the backside of stone making sure to cover the stone well so that the stone won't fall off as you pick up the next one.

F. Press stone into mortar, rotating slightly, forcing some of the mortar to squeeze out freely. Any mortar that has been forced out beyond the finished joint or onto the stone surface itself must be removed with a joint tool, your finger or a brush before the mortar is allowed to set up. Narrow joints will give you a much nicer look. You can even tack temporay nails at the bottom of the stone if you are worried that they will slipp down.

G. Use a grout bag to fill all joints. Wait about 15 to 20 minutes for the grout to tighten and then tool the joint to your liking. Clean up all excess grout with a brush or damp rag and you're finished. For that I charge $5.00 a square foot. Real stone is $20-$25 a foot.

RFS