New house nightmare (and we barely started)

[dawell0]

Here is for everyone that is considering to build a house and thinks that it will be superior to a pre-owned one. We have had the following major problems with our house and we are not even very far:

1. House put in wrong position on the site
2. House put so that the garage is 5.5 ft below the level of the main house (almost 1/2 story steps between garage and house). No one paid attention to the topography of the land (since it was put in the wrong place on the site).
3. Concrete was poured incorrectly and there are major cold seams in it.
4. Concrete cold seams are so bad that they leak rain (I say they are definitely cracks all the way through).
5. Structural engineer says that the cold seams are significant enough to need steel I-beams to support the house.
6. Driveway and front yard destroyed by the concrete company putting in this horrible foundation.
7. Contractor put damp-proofing rather than water proofing on the foundation (leaky as it is) in spite of the fact that it was clearly stated in the contract.
8. THE BEST--There is no place to put the I-beam that supports the entire house on one wall because they stepped down the foundation on the one side (walkout basement) before the place it would be. It would have to go into the brick (which isn't possible).

AND we are only at the foundation walls AND the builder thinks that there is nothing wrong with all of this. Don't worry, my husband and I are working to resolve all these things and probably start over! Depends on the "remedies" that will occur.

[Rich]

WOW..
Document everything is my best advice. Pictures, letters, etc. Where are you located? If you move to MT let me know and I'll build your next one :)

[dawell0]

Wish I could let you build my house, but it looks like in spite of all these problems we are going to have trouble getting out of the contract (Ohio). Don't think that you are anywhere near us in the Midwest. Evidentally, the law is on their side because the house will MARGINALLY pass code with posts, etc to solve the problems. I don't want a marginal foundation. I'm not as picky as others that I have read on here. I just want a house that looks OK, doesn't leak, and is structurally sound AND I'm willing to pay for it. Thanks for giving me an outlet to complain.

[Cole]

Got some questions, What size sf house are you building, and what kind of damage to the front yard by the concrete crew?

[dawell0]

House is 2 story, 2700 square foot (not including garage or basement footage) with a side entry garage attached. So the foundation is like 70 ft x 30 ft (because of the garage). This house has a walkout basement.

I don't know how much a new foundation would cost (we don't even have the floor in yet). The walls were 10 ft high and 10 inches thick. My husband and I would prefer just to rip it down and start over because of all the problems. We are environmentally conscious so we thought that we would use the concrete to eventually do something else, preferably to make our gravel driveway if we can get it into small enough pieces. We are so disgusted that we don't have any desire to try and save it unless we absolutely have to, legally. We are prepared to lose $20,000 if we have to, but I don't know if we can afford too much more.

They had started to put in our gravel driveway with a 12 inch diameter pipe for the street drain. The concrete company destroyed the pipe for the street drain and put ruts in the front yard that are about 3 ft deep. I guess that it was a little too wet for them to be there.

As I said, this is a real mess. I haven't even gotten into the the little picky details about the problems that we are having either because there is enough big problems. The worst part is that we didn't take the cheapest guy either. I think we just signed on with the one that was trying to take us and our money.

[Cole]

I feel sorry for you, I think it would be a wise thing to start over if you are ok with losing 20k. Like I said before I am sorry that you have had to deal with one of the bad builders that are in our industry. If you need any more help feel free to post your question.

[N2Deep]

Did you have code specs that the concrete had to be? Like PSI or anything like that? You shouldn't lose any money - the concrete contractor should be liable for poor work or not meeting specs. Did the inspector pass the foundation inspection? I would sue them if they don't fix their problems if they are that bad. Document with pictures and keep your inspection paperwork if it failed.

We just poured a slab 8" thick post-tension cables @3500psi -Cost us a pretty penny on that one but its solid.

[Tom R]

Tell the builder you 'demand' he remedy all these mistakes before going any further or you'll be doing a 'feature story' on his 'building practices' on the front page of your local newspaper!!

[doinitmyself]

This remedy is probably the best. If you don,t seriously motivate this guy you may end up in a feature story with everyone else he ripped off but after he split town with all your money!

[dawell0]

I'm glad to hear that you are all sympathetic. It seems that the builder is trying to convince the county code inspector that we are being unreasonable. In spite of all the problems and the structural engineer's reports, the builder and the concrete subcontractor still insist that it is OK. Unfortunately, the builder is "in tight" with the inspectors and I've heard that the county inspectors frequently "miss" things. I'm just worried that this guy is going to hide the problems, although we have already done a fine job of documenting everything. Our hope is that we will soon not have to deal with him ever again.

We have stopped work while we investigated whether or not this thing will meet code. I'm afraid that in spite of all its problems that it may just marginally meet code, but I don't see how something that needs structural supports will meet the code. The structural engineer said that we will need major supports every 3 feet along every wall in the basement because of the way that the cold joints and cracks are as well as the fact that I don't think that they did the footers all the way correctly. This would make resale tough as well as cut majorly into our basement square footage. After we did all those poles, even with the waterproofing, I fear that it would leak as well. That's why I just want to start over and not think about the cost.

We didn't go to the media. Instead, we hired an attorney (hopefully the best one in town) who is looking into our case. I'm hoping that the builder/subcontractors will settle quickly and not fight us for getting out of the contract. We have so much on them already. Hopefully, this guy will run even if it is with what we gave him. I would rather lose the money that we have given him than have a poorly built home. It's sad to me that it had to come to this. He seemed like he was reputable and working for quality. I guess that I was wrong.

[VALENT]

you should be able to have a well built home and NOT lose money. You may be well served to find an experienced home inspector who will give a completely non-biased report on what is going on. This could answer your present questions and be useful if court visits are in your future.

[plunkinberry]

GET A LAWYER! NOW! You are going to loose your ass (sorry to be blunt) if you let this builder push you around. You'll be stuck with a piece of junk that he talked someone (that he's probably friends with) into passing code...

Force him to rectify the situation before going any farther. You'll still loose money, but it'll be done right. The lawyer can help - both with explaining what your actual rights are, with the builder, and with the local community - don't let the code guy let things slide...

[dawell0]

Already have the lawyer who specializes in construction and real estate, one of the best in town (pretty big town)! Our lawyer usually represents the builders or construction companies so he is well aware of the arguments that will be used against us. He is working to see how we can get out of the contract and not pay much for this foundation.

The foundation has not "officially" passed code, but the builder is saying that it is fine enough to pass code. It is not far enough along (only side walls no floor yet/no plumbing rough-ins, etc). I don't know, but code is the minimum standards in my opinion and for the $110/square ft that I am paying I expected quality. I know that code inspectors are not structural engineers and it is easy to miss these sorts of problems, even if everyone is honest. Like you said, he is probably related or friends with the inspector as well since it is a small county and he is into politics as well. My husband and I have caught him in so many lies just between what he tells each of us. I think that he would hide it well enough to pass code, regardless of whether it was stable or not. He is also not understanding why we don't continue since the concrete company is "warrantying" it (but no specifics were given). Like I trust a warranty from people who cannot pour concrete correctly to begin with. Will they even be in business? Will they warranty the entire house when it falls off of the foundation?

Had we not been vigilant, I believe that this guy would have continued. I realize that the structural engineers are likely to be pessimistic, but the fact that 2 independent engineers say that there are problems makes me sure that what action we are pursuing is correct. I would rather be conservative than always worried about what is going to happen to my house. The structural engineers suggested vertical I-beams from the floor of the basement to the framing above along the entire basement walls every 2-3 feet to make it stable. I realize that it probably would be stable, but then it would still leak since they also screwed up the waterproofing and it would definitely hurt the resale. Besides, it would cut into the square footage of the basement by about 1/2 foot on each wall.

If we can get out of the contract, we have decided to tear down the wall, even if it costs us a lot of money. I'm hoping not more than $20K for the walls, lawyer, and tearing down. I guess that sometimes in life you have losses and this is one of them. No one got hurt and I can always earn more money! Thanks for your advice. It makes me feel better that there are people in the construction field who share my concern. I SO HOPE that I can get rid of this guy or I think that I will be one of those people who builds a house that is uninhabitable (like the mold situation)!

[Tom R]

This builder 'infuriates' those of us who build everything as if it were our own. Sorry you're having this experience with a 'poor excuse' for a builder, - - who is so bad his actions are, in actuality, - - CRIMINAL!!

Best of luck, - - hold your head up high and fight the good fight with this LOSER! - - and keep us posted on your progress.

[dawell0]

WE REALIZED that something else was wrong when I had my relatives see my pain: there is no place to put one end of the I-beam except into the brick. THe foundation steps down before there would be a place for the I-beam to attach on the one side (the other has a notch in the concrete wall for the I-beam). THere is no footer there either so he wasn't planning to put a pole there. Just another instance of poor planning and inability to move forward. I also realized that he never had an architect go over the plans, just a drafting service. That was yet another instance of fraud on his part because we gave him $3000 for an "architect" to draw up.

I agree that I shouldn't lose anything, but it looks like the law is on the incompetent contractor's side in my state, Ohio. Additionally, I didn't have things spelled out well enough in the contract to protect me. Unfortunately, the foundation walls will pass code if they have support beams along every wall every 2-3 feet and more poles along the I-beam, according to a structural engineer. This significantly cuts down on the basement square footage. That doesn't guarantee that it will not leak of course.

The results of the concrete were bad for us. The concrete was expected to be to at least 2500 psi in all areas (says 3000 in the contract but again I guess that 2500 meets code), but they did it at 2 wks of age and some were only 1500 psi (but I guess that it increases and that was on their chart). They didn't do the coring but instead used some sort of laser system, I guess. I'm not sure that it was so accurate, but I don't know how much more money I want to put out to test it more because I know that I want to start over. The only reason that I paid for all this was because the attorney wanted to be able to help us to get out of the most money possible. I still am not convinced that it will get up to the 3000 psi average throughout. The experts, however, must have thought that it would be OK in that front so that is why they saved us money by refraining from the coring process.

What I do know--structurally unsound, in the wrong spot, with the damp proofing, may be issues with the footers, the drop from the house to the garage--just show me that I need to get away from this guy QUICK!

Still, the attorney says that we should be able to get out of the contract and not have to pay 100% of the cost of the foundation walls that are done incorrectly. However, he fears that we will have to pay for the majority of the walls since with the supports they will meet code and be structurally OK. Again, I guess that the state is not so concerned about the leaking and to me a wet basement is a worthless basement. I'm sickened by it, but I guess that is the way that life goes. I believe that it probably would be able to be "fixed" but that would just result in expensive problems in the coming years. 5, 10, 30, who knows? To me, it is not worth the risk and I think that I have heard about other people who spend almost $20K to fix their basements later. I think just visually that it would be sooner rather than later that I would have problems.

Glad to hear that it infuriates other good quality builders. I will try not to judge all builders poorly because you all sound like you understand my plight. I just hope to find a good builder next so that I am not in a similar situation. Any suggestions of good builders in OH that will build on our lot?

Thanks for reading as it makes me feel better to post. I'll keep you up to date on my results since we are meeting with the attorney soon to pursue further action once we get the official info from the structural engineer.

[dawell0]

The concrete test results came back formally with good news. I guess that they realized that the concrete will only reach 2100 psi which is MUCH below the 3000 specified in the contract. I believe that will not meet code. Our lawyer says that makes the case easy.

I appreciate everyone's help. When I get a new builder and work with him, I am sure that I will be looking on this site for information on how to improve our house building experience and quality.

[Rich]

A step in the right direction - it's not the nail in the coffin for your builder.. just one more. The contractor will most likely say "It's not my fault - it's the concrete supplier". But with the other problems - location, etc.. you're getting enough nails.

[Cole]

So is the project at a standstill?

[dawell0]

Project has been at a standstill since the end of October, 2-3 days after they poured these horrible concrete walls. We immediately thought that it looked bad and wanted to hire real experts, not listen to the guys that did it that it was OK, so we put a stop to all work then. Good thing that we did since it was so understrength. The cracks are a miracle that we saw there was a problem early so that we didn't build on top of this and have issues the rest of the life of the house. The builder has been antsy to continue while we were waiting for 2 structural engineer reports and the concrete psi analysis tests, but we resisted--THANK goodness! I realize that we aren't out of the woods but the attorney said that it will make this case much easier. I think that I am OK since I have one of the best lawyers in our town for this sort of mess and he usually represents the builders so he sees it from both perspectives. It also makes the decision to tear it down much easier since the state will probably require it. Hopefully, we will be able to start again in the spring with someone honest and be in the house by next Christmas.

[Cole]

Good Luck!!!!

[Dragon]

How to say this properly...

I found one frivolous complaint in your original post.

The ruts in the yard. It is going to happen. It is a jobsite. Allow for it and landscape once the job is done.

[Cole]

Dragon that is why I asked for the extent of damge they did.

[dawell0]

The ruts are the least of my worries, even though some are several feet deep, but they destroyed the gravel driveway and crushed the pipe for the street drain so now we have a lake in our front yard each time it rains. Mainly the concern is that blocking the pipe is messing up the drainage for the street. My husband and I made a small trench so that the water can drain back to the creek and it doesn't pool into ours or the neighbor's yard. I certainly agree that a job site is going to have landscaping issues and I realize that, particularly when it rains for several days straight. I realize that building is not a flowerbed. I'm not so worried about making them pay for that since those are the sorts of things that happen (definitely I expected) and they can be fixed for pretty cheap with some equipment or a few loads a dirt at worst--$1000 or less to fix. The equipment to do that will be there when we backfill anyhow. Concrete with cracks that is around 900 psi below what we paid for and is not structurally sound is what I am so angry about. Hopefully, it is gone within the next few months. Fixing the driveway is low on my priorities however.

[dhill]

I, for one, am glad you're getting these issues settled. I recently went through having to re-level a concrete foundation because of improper construction. Now, in Texas, there is a builder's liability and an inspector's liability, and an owner's liability, that pretty much states all structural issues must be disclosed before selling a house. The problem with the liability law is that there is no teeth to it. In order to enforce it, it would cost us more in court fees to make the responsible individuals fix the problem than it would for us to pay ourselves to have it fixed. We paid so that we could sell the house with a clear conscience (before we discovered other major issues). I hope you're not out too much in lawyer fees. Those extra funds could have been used in the construction of your home.

[dawell0]

UPDATE-Our lawyer let the builder know that we terminated the contract for breech of contract for the concrete strength and the damp-proofing. The builder got an attorney and it seems that they agree that it is disconcerting to have it so understrength, but he is going to be tying up the process by testing the concrete through more coring. We have to be there whenever they are doing anything because we told them to stay off of our property. I don't know if he needs to do that to get out of paying the concrete subcontractors himself. No one knows if they are fighting us or not. I'll keep with the updates. Our lawyer is helping us to look for another builder.

[Cole]

Good news, keep us updated.

[giddonah]

What is this fool's name? I don't see why he shouldn't be famous.

[dawell0]

I'll give the fool's name when we are definitely finished with the litigation and I check with my lawyer about what I can say. Of course, I have only said the truth which I believe makes it OK to tell his name, but I would rather not compromise my case in the off chance that he or his lawyer are ever on this forum.

[Cole]

Smart move, keep it to urself till everything is settled.

[dawell0]

UPDATE--Basically, we lost our fight with the concrete people--even though we have a concrete wall that is bowing now (concave to the outside about 6 inches at the largest part), cold seams that go all the way through on every wall (no vertical rebar), info from the structural engineer that the front wall is not structurally sound without steel beams every few feet, no place to put the beam to hold the top floor of the house, etc. Unfortunately, the concrete 'passed' code minimally with rework expected so we have to pay for this minus the estimated cost of the rework (which is minimal). All code really is concerned about is the concrete strength and it was 2500 psi, which is OK. The code inspector disagrees with the structural engineer (the same code inspector, however, approved work being done to 2 old buildings that recently caved in that the same structural engineer warned about. You would think that he learned his lesson--or maybe he's paid off?).

Don't worry, even though we are losing over $14K, we are tearing it down and getting another builder. I'll see if my husband can send us a picture. Our lawyer said that we can still get out of the contract on shoddy workmanship, but we will probably have to pay off the crooked builder to get rid of him. I'm disgusted, but glad to hear that you guys agree that he is a crook. The worst part is that the builder doesn't understand why we don't want to continue with him! I'm so angry about the whole thing. I think that I am going to go into the construction business in this state because by the time we get our house built, I will have to be at least as knowledgeable as those idiots. Thanks for this board to have "good advice" from responsible builders.

P.S. When we were planning the house, I asked him about the OSB vs plywood thing that I read on the other board. He couldn't believe that I would care, told me that it was ridiculous for me to want plywood for framing because it cost too much and that OSB was better. I didn't know, so I thought maybe he was right. I should have seen the writing on the wall then. He would sigh whenever I would ask anything! Maybe the next guy will be better. Too bad this guy got lots of my money for cheating us.

[Rich]

Too bad that people are so ignorant. There is a difference between passing code and not building to industry standards. Are there specifications that state something to the effect of "straight and true"? I will go to the grave saying that 6" bow in a wall is not industry standard.

When you start looking for another contractor let me know.. I'm serious about this. I'll get you some paperwork with specifications, bid tab. I'll even create a shedule for you if you want. I'll review his contract or whatever you need.

[dawell0]

They claim that it is up to some concrete standards, but I would agree with you. I trust a structural engineer any day over them (although he thinks that we should just brace it). I will try and attach the photo. Unfortunately, the lawyer says that we have to settle on their terms. It just doesn't seem fair.

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your kindness and offering to look over everything. I think that I will take you up on the offer, but we aren't proceeding with the new until we are sure to get rid of the old. Our lawyer is suggesting a builder that we will investigate first.

[dawell0]

attachment? Oh, the last one didn't work because it's too big. This photo makes it hard to see but there is a yardstick next to the bowed wall on the one side with the snow. That wall is bowed worse now, but I don't have that picture converted yet to send.

[Rich]

Whats the top of the wall look like? Is it straight or bowed also? Like if you ran a stringline along the wall - how far out is it?

[dawell0]

Thanks for the question--we think that it straightens out by the top but we are not sure. My husband was there last time without me so I have not seen it in person since it has gotten worse. We plan to go out there and do the string method to see, since that is definitely a point that may help our case and we didn't even think about--although we did send the picture to the lawyer. I am too sick about it to go out there and look at it very much right now. Actually the picture due to illusion by the snow, makes it look better than it looks in real life.

[Cole]

Sorry to hear about that.

[giddonah]

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
I'm pissed for you. Let us know who this guy is as soon as you sever your relationship. :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Tom R]

And we'll sever his :evil:!!

[Zatol]

Is there a state supported licensing board in Ohio that governs home builders? I am a builder in NC and our licensing board is very active in problem resolution between the builder and the buyer...

Also, when this project was submitted for permits was there a dimensioned site plan that was also submitted showing the orientation of the structure on the lot. Typically this is required and has to be approved by the planning or zoning department. Also, this should be part of your contract documents. If you have these things, I would use this angle to exit the deal. This is the only concern that you have mentioned which is not subjective...

[Rich]

dawell0 - if the top is straight I can almost guess what will be said. "Who cares what the bottom of the foundation looks like - it'll be buried with dirt - as long as the top line is straight"
Then I'll get really pissed off. :evil:

[Cole]

dawell0 - if the top is straight I can almost guess what will be said. "Who cares what the bottom of the foundation looks like - it'll be buried with dirt - as long as the top line is straight"
Then I'll get really pissed off. :evil:

Oh thats going to happen, you can count on it. :evil:

Keep us informed :!: :!:

[dawell0]

Unfortunately, the lawyer said that even though we have experts that say that there are structural problems, we still have to settle with them because as mentioned by a previous poster, the major problems are largely subjective, although I have yet to meet a person (with the exception of the concrete guys and the builder who did the work, wavering back and forth, depending on who he thought was right at that minute) think that it is even marginally acceptable. We have had over 10 experts/people in the field, 3 structural engineers, and countless individuals without building experience that we know look at it. Even the jerky builder and the concrete testing service that did the coring (who originally thought that my husband was the concrete subcontractor and not the property owner) said that the concrete pour was the worst job that they had ever seen! At least the lawyer has good hopes that we will be able to get out of the contract without too much trouble as long as we throw them money. Given the antiquity of Ohio's building code, I'm pretty sure that it is legal to tar and feather these idiots when this is over--or at least deliver some horrible concrete to their front yard! Who's up for such a party????

As mentioned by a previous poster, the site plan will probably also not get us out of the deal because it is mainly, "he said, she said". The site plan to the county was only 'generic', to quote the builder and that is all that they require--in spite of the fact that I orally begged for the official site plan several times. The reason that the county even asks for anything is that they want to know the basic site of the house in relation to setting up our septic system. The other problem is that the house plan itself was really not consulted (they used a "block" larger than the house specs) to give a general area to site the house. We were not involved in this at all, even though we requested it, other than to put little flags in the "general area" that we wanted the house. I kept calling and waiting to see a visual of the site plan or to meet with the surveyors to put in specific flags, etc, but never did, probably because it was never done. Our biggest complaint was that it was sited at the wrong angle. Rather than consulting us, they just moved everything forward A LOT quickly, which was a rarity in their case. We were (and still are) understanding that some problems occur, so we didn't make a big deal about that at the stage of the footers, but my husband screamed at them for it. In retrospect, they probably put it in a good place because we have a larger cleared area for our backyard. Had I been consulted, I probably would never have had a problem, particularly if they had reason to move the house, but the lack of the official site plan is what eats me alive.

Our lawyer is further discussing with the main structural engineer about the bowed wall. Unfortunately, you are probably right that they will say that it is OK if it self-corrects at the top (I haven't made it out there). That's the only wall without cold seams, cracks, and major honeycombing so we somewhat ignored it (we have 5 walls because the garage is separate and this is where the side entry garage doors would be). I'm a chemist and I don't understand how the wall could bow as it has, since we checked and all the forms were secure and straight. I guess that it is because they took them off within 36 hrs of the pour. I also don't understand why it is so chalky to the touch that it flakes off, yet the testing company says that the coring ended up being like 2500 psi, which passes, believe it or not, (when it was supposed to be 3000 psi )--the previous test was the Windsor probe which was done too early. I also cannot believe that vertical rebar isn't mandatory anymore? The 3 structural engineers all independently suggested numerous beams along each wall in the basement and underneath the main steel beam as additional support (ended up cutting into our usable basement space by like 200 square feet) but I think that since we only have walls and no floor, it is better to start completely over. Oh well, just money lost because the plan is to rip it down regardless of what happens. We will get some credit for the rework that would have to be done for this concrete, so that may soften the blow a bit.

Thanks for giving me an outlet to complain, because it makes me feel much better. After saving for years for this house, I hate to see a year's salary after taxes down the drain, but I guess it is better to live and learn, and I found your educational board in the process.

To flip this to a more positive note, any ideas what to recycle the walls for when they come down? Could it be a nice retaining wall or a patio or a part of the driveway? I don't know if they break it up or slice it out. I've heard both are possible.

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL THESE NICE PEOPLE! Denise

[Cole]

Denise, that sucks.

I think it is a good idea that you are starting all over, that is what I would do to. If you have anymore questions, we are always here to asnwer them. :D

[dawell0]

The wall "self-corrects" by the time that it gets to the top in spite of the bowing. Unfortunately, it passes ACI standards (must be pretty minimal), so the jerk thinks that we should pay all bills in full and give him $9000 for profit. Our lawyer plans to counter with the structural engineer report to get some of that knocked down. I cannot believe that we will have to pay him profit. I guess that it is worth the money to have a well-built house. Anyone know if I can deduct it on my taxes????

[Rich]

That sucks dawell0. There has to be a loophole somewhere - could maybe call it bad debt :)

[Cole]

That does suck, hopefully you wont have to pay him the full bill .

I wouldnt!!!

[dawell0]

UPDATE--The idiots (after almost 4 weeks of telling us nothing) finally responded to our definite decision to end the contract. They were supposed to give us their settlement amount on Feb 2, but it took them to the other day to get it to us. As I mentioned on another board, they asked for $31,000 total in addition to the $12,000 that we had already given, all for some design work, some excavation, and just side walls of a poured foundation that need to come down. Of that $31,000, $6000 was supposed to be more profit, along with the $9000 that we already gave him. Our lawyer said that was excessive on purpose, because they knew that they were going to be challenged. We determined that $3000 was a math error (him figuring 25% instead of 20% profit margin) and $3000 was already paid for the architect's work and he is trying to ask for again, so we are down to the $25,000 he is asking for the "costs".

He claims that he spent $25,000 for the job: $14,000 for the concrete, $1100 for rock and the temporary driveway, and $600 for excavation. He neglected to tell us how much the trees coming down were, but that may have been in the excavation bill. That's about $9000 for overhead or miscellaneous expenses. This guy is a real crook, 10% of the cost is miscellaneous, suspicious! The concrete company put a lien on our property for the $14,000 over a month ago, so he put another lien for the $10,000, but our attorney is going to get them for that. They waited too long to put the lien because it has been like 4 1/2 months since anything was done when we told them to stop work. In this state you only have 90 days to file a lien. They lied, however, on an affidavet that said that the last work was done in December, but that date was even after our attorney had been involved and sent him the Dear John letter. Hopefully, this is just the beginning of things to go on our side. I figure that you can only lie so long and get away with it, especially since we have saved all the documentation and emails and he is very disorganized. If he legitimately incurred expenses, I guess that I will pay for those as I am reasonable, but I think that he should not get any profit since he did nothing right. I'm already eating a lot of costs myself, but it will save the money in the long run.

Our attorney is going to try and get him for breach of contract by the constant lack of good workmanship so we don't have to pay a lot of that. I would have probably settled more easily, but now I'm ticked even more because of the delays of communication between him and his attorney. His attorney told ours he wants to fire him too! Pretty bad that you tick off your own attorney that much.

Question based on all this--given the way that builders pay their 'company taxes' through their own income taxes, do you think that he is cheating the IRS if he isn't able to document all these things??? Maybe he is just padding.

[giddonah]

It's a hell of a lot easier to cheat a faceless entity like the IRS than to do it to someone in person as he has been doing to you. If he's got the gonads to pull this stuff to individuals I'd be willing to bet dinner that he's cheating the IRS. I hope you go to the newspapers when this is settled, then maybe a call to our friends at the IRS :wink: . I heard that you get a reward for turning in people to the IRS if they owe, don't know if it was just a rumor though.

[dawell0]

I'm also sure that this guy is cheating the Feds. I just would think that you would want to keep better records to improve your business (even if you are cheating people), but maybe he is holding it back on purpose just from us to try and get more money. Maybe this guy is really that incompetent and has to lie to hide his lack of knowledge. I don't understand how he was able to build the houses that we saw to check on him. The worst part of all of this is this fella is "an upstanding church member" and goes to the church that we were going to attend when we move, before having our dealings with him. I suppose that the mass murderer they just picked up was also an upstanding citizen, supposedly. I guess that I should be happy that I live in a suburban-enough area that I can drive 5 more miles to another church of my denomination.

FYI--They used to give rewards turning in those guilty of state income tax evasion in Kentucky, where I used to live. The only problem was that they had several people calling about EVERYBODY and his brother almost to collect the reward money. More than likely, if they looked extremely carefully at any business owner's IRS filings, they would find something that they could challenge because tax law is so gray. It would be hard to challenge me unless I did a math error because this guy and the attorney have gotten all my money.

[giddonah]

this guy and the attorney have gotten all my money.

I can't tell you how infuriating that is. Sometimes I wonder if it wasn't better when you could just shoot people like this.

[dawell0]

Yep, between testing the concrete, structural engineer fees, and the lawyer fees, I am at $7000 (and we haven't even gotten very far with the lawyer yet). If we go to arbitration or court, you can bet that I will double that cost--at least. That's why I may just have to settle and give the !@#%@%##@% more of my money, to save $. Thanks as usual for listening, guys.

[Dragon]

WWJD

[giddonah]

He'd judge the guy as the slimeball he is and send him to hell.

[dawell0]

Good, because I am getting my permit to carry a concealed weapon today. Too bad I cannot take it into the courtroom. LOL. I really should not joke about this though.

[giddonah]

hahahah, nice.

[dhill]

I would recommend that you contact the IRS. Reward or no reward, they will investigate, and it will cause that individual a great deal of inconvenience, if not worse. I know this because it happened to a friend of mine who was turned in by someone who was angry with him. He had nothing to hide, all of his records and dealings were legit, but it was one major hassle for him

[dawell0]

Haven't visited here because I was too depressed about our house situation. Very little to update because the idiot insists that he is "within building standards based on the HBA". The HBA won't get involved because structural engineers say otherwise, which our attorney believes points to our side of the case. He will not settle any less than for his entire profit so we delivered him a notice to commence suit, but he has 60 days to do it. We are almost 30 days into this notice, and still no word. We have a definite case against him because he put the lien on after the state's statute allows. His argument is that he was "measuring the width of the foundation walls" on the day that work was done. STUPID! It was after we told him that work needed to be stopped anyway. Just a few days ago was our first step in awhile to think about the house again with another builder. We found a different guy we think that we like, but we have to solve this mess until the county will allow any further building to proceed. Thanks as usual for your support and assistance!

[Cole]

Keep us updated.

I hope everything works out.

[dhill]

Sorry you're dealing with an unscrupulous builder and you have to go to these extremes. What a waste of time and money and energy. I sure hope everything works out for you and that you can win your case and then go after the guy for fraud for calling himself a builder.

[Bakerdog]

I was glad to read that your contractor missed the deadline for lien filing. Although I do not practice in the area of construction law, that puts you in a much better situation than if he had filed on time. Based on what you have written, it seems to me that you have a pretty good case, although your attorney has undoubtedly advised you to settle due to the cost of litigating the matter. (Most people can't afford to lose the case and pay the tens of thousands of dollars for their attorney).

Be prepared for receiving a complaint on the 60th day to file. For a variety of reasons, a lot of cases get filed on the last day.

The thing that puzzles me is that if a contract spec says 3000 psi, and you get 2500 (which I read here is up to code), why on earth would he be entitled to his full profit? If he does not fully perform as promised, it seems that his recovery should be limited to the value of the work he did. In another vein, if you are going to be required to put all that steel in your basement, and lose 200 sf of space, the cost of the steel and the reduced size also would warrant a reduction in his recovery.

Basically, while I'm not an expert, I do believe you have a strong case and I hope you will open a can of legal whup ass on him.

Good luck, and I too am sorry you are going through this. So many construction horror stories.

[Sweep]

I am sympathetic to your problems and wish you well in your efforts to resolve them but, since you seem to suggest there might be something unwise about building a new house, I have to ask: who was the designer of the house, who located it on the property, and who is responsible for on-site construction monitoring? And are these people working for you or the builder?

Good luck

After reading a bit more I would like to suggest that the builder might be vulnerable if he promised documents prepared by an “architect”. Your lawyer might not be aware that the term "architect" is just as restricted legally as "lawyer". "Architect" can only be used for professionals currently registered to practice architecture by the state. There are no unregistered architects in the US. If he used that term in writing he cannot substitute a drafter. I would claim that his contract required that the drawings and specification be done by an architect and that he failed to do so. It is a clear breach of contract that is material to the issues being litigated. In CT an unregistered designer using the term "architect" or "architectural designer" can be prosecuted for consumer fraud.

I got into a fight with a contractor who claimed that his structural work had been passed by his buddy the building inspector (what's all the fuss about?") and it was quickly resolved when I threatened to go to the building department and have my stamp removed from the drawings. Several of the towns in my area require me to sign an affidavit at completion stating that the house was built according to my drawings. You should really consider hiring an architect whatever your building dept requires. Resolving these kinds of issues before they become a problem is exactly what architects do (contrary to popular opinion). An architect's fee can be a bargain.

I have to run, I am on my way to a site meeting to discuss some problems. The contractor won't proceed without my input because he sees it as protection for him, not the owner. Always take the cheap insurance.

In MA your foundation wall would be required to be vertically reinforced. Many concrete industry standards (ACI, etc.) and all model codes require it. The building code does not define good practice although it can hurt your argument in court. I would have dropped the wall to avoid that much concrete in the backyard. Where are you building?

[dawell0]

Sorry that this has taken so long to post, but I have decided that it was better for me to spend my free time trying to find a better job than hoping to win some court case. It still looks like we will settle, but unfortunately we will lose a lot of money in the process (it looks like over $30K at this point). It really is bull, but I know now to hire my own independent agents outside of the builder. At one point, I was seriously considering building my OWN house, but now my job is too good to leave for building which I know VERY little about!

Addressing Sweep,
The builder and his site coordinator were the ones that were supposed to be observing the site but they were not even aware what was going on. We found out that the drawings were done by a draftsman and not a licensed architect. The builder did state an architect during our design phase, but our lawyer insists that since the county does not require an architect to do the drawings that we cannot do much about it. I told the lawyer what you stated, but he doesn't think that it would help our case any. We plan to have our drawings redone and stamped this time. I thought that I had drawings that were stamped but he never showed us the actual blueprints, just the pdf files.

When we signed with the builder, we had told them that we were going to be VERY involved in the process, monitoring things and that we would work hand in hand with their subs to see that things progressed fine. They agreed, but then they just kept continuing to do things how they wanted, not contacting us about what was going on, and taking weeks to prepare the lot. In this time, we thought that all that happened was that trees were removed. That is what they told us and that they would contact us when they were close to starting. We went to the site and that is what we saw. However, he had the site plan drawn up (without our approval), etc and by the time that we got back, the footers were poured and he made a big deal about redoing them. We live about 50 miles from the site, so 2 times per week is probably all that we have to spare to see the lot. I have other relatives nearby that can probably go there 2 times per week as well, so we can see every other day for the future. I'm thinking about hiring my own inspectors or an architect to observe the process to see their opinions on the workmanship, but I'm cash poor after this mess. I think that to prevent further problems it may be a bargain.

I'll keep you updated since we are STILL fighting this and they want lots of money more that I don't think that I should have to give them!

[bkrahmer]

Even stamps are worthless, IMHO. I have a set of stamped drawings for a house that I had designed while I was in CO. Several years later, I was looking at the drawings when I was designing my house in ID. I realized the rooflines are completely wrong... As each day passes, I think more and more that the old agage is correct, 'if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.'

[john7447]

How did this all turn out?

[Michael Olding]

This is so unfortunate.

Living in Ohio we have some of the best... and some of the worst in the trades. One has to be very careful and choosy about whom the hire.

But one thing I find prevelent here and I suspect it is true in most places around the country is what I call the 'WalMart mentality'.

Consumers are so programmed to shopping price for all the goods that they purchase that when they find themselves selecting services they tend to use the same method - cheapest price gets the job.

And this may work well for many products or services but it is the quickest road to disaster when hiring building services. Since we can't do everything ourselves in this day and age it is critical, when making the largest financial decision of a lifetime, to know the person you are hiring.

In out community I see this problem almost daily and many times... and I'm not saying that this is the case here... but many times people shop building services like they are shopping for a car. Using price as the only yard stick for comparison.

I hope this homeowner was able to remedy the situation and able to salvage something from his 'dream home'.