replace window with tempered glass

[detroit]

we built a new home. on final inspection, the inspector said one window was within 2 feet of an exit door, and so the glass would need to be tempered.

we have a milgard vinyl window in there right now.

can we just replace the glass, or will the whole window need to come out?
it would be the same situation almost if we had a broken pane, wouldn't it?

our contractor is mad because nothing was indicated on the drawing about this. it's difficult to remove because exterior stucco surrounds the window.

tia

[bkrahmer]

What style of window is it? Are there fixed panes within 2', or just moving panes? For example, the sliding part of the horizontal sliders (at least on the classic line) is extremely easy to remove.

[Vector]

our contractor is mad because nothing was indicated on the drawing about this. it's difficult to remove because exterior stucco surrounds the window.

Your contractor is mad because he got caught trying to be cheap (unless *you* bought the window and told him to install it).

Tempered glass within 2 feet of a door is a very well known code requirement, but a lot of times an inspector won't catch it.

Unless you have single glazed windows, he's going to have to, at minimum, replace the sashes with tempered units, if it's a window with removable sashes.

[detroit]

the window is :
STYLE LINE SERIES - HORIZONTAL SLIDER WINDOW.

these are double pane windows.
i agree the slider can probably pop out easily, i think
i've seen one come out.

but i'm not sure about the fixed pane side... first of all... it's double pane and my uncle said those are difficult to replace because it's not just a single sheet of glass. on the other hand, i was out looking at the exterior of this window and it looked like there were some thingies that would pop off allowing us to remove the pane.... so I just don't know. I wish I could know so I could tell our contractor, look dude it's not a big deal, just do this...

tia.

[bkrahmer]

My point was that if code says you have to have tempered glass within 2' of the door, then you only need to worry about the part that falls within that distance. You really didn't make it clear whether the sliding part or the fixed part falls within that 2'. If it's the sliding part, I'm sure Milgard will be more than happy to build you a new piece to drop in there. If it's the fixed part, I'm not sure, I just started installing my Milgards on Friday, and didn't look at them that closely to see if the fixed part comes out easily.

[detroit]

ok, the fixed side is the one that is close to the door. the slider is more that 2 feet from the door... but of course if the slider is open.... it would be within the 2 feet.

ok, so can I replace the fixed pane or will the whole window need to come out?

tia

[bkrahmer]

There goes Murphy, getting involved again. Give a shout and ask Milgard...

[Rich]

I wouldn't even think of replacing the panes of glass on a vinyl window. Most often they have a full vinyl wrap around the glass.. i.e. no way to get it removed and replaced.
Anyway - you're probably looking at more expense to replace a pane of glass anyway (if there is a way to get it out). Builder should cover this anyway - and I would tell him to get it done ASAP or he's not getting paid for substantial completion.

[detroit]

ok, well the builder might walk, whatever, i'm left to clean up the mess.

so... to get this sucker past code, i've considered busting out the dog-gawn pane and just replacing it with GE Lexan... they sell this stuff at Home Depot in big sheets.... i can cut it to size and pop it in. think the inspector will let that go??

thanks.

[Vector]

I still think you need to make the builder fix this. It's his fault. He should have done it right and he should fix it right.

And that involves getting new sashes and replacing the ones in the frame. He doesn't have to get a whole new frame, he should be able to get replacement sashes from the manufacturer.

The cost shouldn't be huge. Even if you have top of the line super windows (and the vinyl says that they're probably not), the cost is probably less than a completely new window with tempered glass would be.

You haven't made the final payment to this guy yet, have you?

[detroit]

from the Milgard site:

"Fusion-welded frame and sash permanently join the frame with no staples or nails."

I guess that means the sash cannot be separated and replaced separately.
I'm going to call milgard tomorrow to see what they say.

otherwise, I'm still considering that GE Lexan plexiglass


as far as the contractor, no I owe him a lot of money, which sort of gives me the upper hand. but i really like the guy so I'm just trying to find a good cheap solution to this, not fight over it.

[Oberon]

The Lexan will get you within code for safety purposes...but it seems a shame to have to replace the nice new window with a sheet of plastic…. but the code requirement for safety glazing with 2’ of a door really is a good idea.

A bit of quick information on plastics:

Lexan is a polycarbonate. Plexiglas is an acrylic.
The only reason I mention the difference is that while both polycarbonates and acrylics are sold for glass replacement, there are differences in performance and longevity between the two products.

Both acrylics and polycarbonates are sensitive to UV light. UV light will degrade both materials and turn them this really pretty shade of yellow with exposure...but there is a fix for that.

Polycarbonate manufacturers almost always include a UV inhibitor in the manufacture of the product...that is why Lexan is a bit darker than plexiglas.

Plexiglas may also include a UV inhibitor, but it probably will not, since manufacturers generally are after the more clear appearance with acrylics and the UV blocker will darken the product somewhat.

Also, polycarbonates have substantially greater impact and stress resistance than acrylics. They are a much more durable product.

IMO, for the best performance, if you decide to go plastic, get the Lexan and avoid the Plexiglas.

A final thought...I agree that fighting the contractor over this isn't appealing, but he is the guy with the license and he is the guy who is supposed to know the code. If he violated code with this window, it seems pretty clear that fixing it is his responsibilty.

[bkrahmer]

BTW, I found out today that Milgard glass panes can come out. The sashes and frames are welded, but the glass is designed to come out (makes sense, doesn't it? People break windows all the time.) My salesperson made it sound relatively simple. Something about glazing tape and glazing putty. You just need to call Milgard, order the replacement panes in tempered, and get a window person to swap them.

[detroit]

yep, called milgard, this is what they said to me as well, get the dealer to swap the pane.

[kadoka]

Perfect timing on this post. We just found out yesterday that our long windows on the front need to be tempered on the lower half as they will be within 18" of the floor. The builder and the building dept. both neglected to mention it.

[bkrahmer]

My Milgard warranty rep came out and fixed my bay window on Thursday. It took two guys about 10-15 minutes to flip 4 of the glass sections that were installed upside down at the factory. It looked pretty easy.

[detroit]

yes, it turned out to be easy in my case as well. the replacement pane has an adhesive on it, so basically you can push (bang) out the existing pane and then pop in the replacement.