You might get tired of me asking questions, a short intro

[giddonah]

I grew up in a city where my mother has two houses. One is fully rented and doing fine (except for a leak in the foundation that can't be fixed until things dry up; winter time I'm told). It's required some small things here and there, but mostly it's in great shape. The second is my current project. It's about 100yrs old. 9ft ceilings, front and rear stairs, plaster everything :evil: , and parts are starting to get close to being finished. This house is going to be awesome.

I'm pretty handy. I can handle most things, and have help for others. Between me and my friend, the two of us can handle nearly anything given the tools. We plan on finishing the current house and moving on to another remodel in the spring. We'd also like to build new since working with someone else's mistakes and shoddy work is such a pain, but that's going to be a future endeavor (maybe next year).

I'll admit I'm not very experienced with construction. I've done plenty of remodels from the floor joists up though. I've done two complete bathrooms and am in the middle of tearing another out. My friend though, has worked on nearly every aspect of construction and is more than just a jack-of-all trades.

I'm an intellectual. I have little patience for stupidity and incompetence. I detest inefficiency. Here's my problem/gripe: The city requires licensed plumbers/electricians and the only way to get licensed is to marry the mayor's daughter, or to pay off the right people. Seriously, the mayor is being investigated by the FBI. Corruption is pissing me off. The zoning board will not grant variances for anything. The town outside the city limits has a housing inspector who's worse than a dictator. He requires rediculous construction methods and will fail projects that exceed state codes. I wouldn't consider getting licensed anyway because I don't believe in spending 4 years as an apprentice shoveling dirt when you can learn the real stuff in a few months at most. Also, the licensed morons are some of the stupidest people in the area. I know laws are there to protect us, but who's to protect us from the law? [/rant]

Anyway, I'd like to start studying more. The internet isn't doing it for me anymore. I'd like to get some books, but I've spent good money on books written very badly. Can I get some suggestions?

[Rich]

What specifically are you looking for? General construction, methods, structural, business side, concrete, framing...?

[giddonah]

yup.

[giddonah]

Ok, I can be serious, really I can. I'd like to start with some stuff on the business side since my friend knows most of the electrical, plumbing, hvac stuff. Maybe some stuff on loads, since those threads about putting in an I-beam are cool. I can probably handle upper level engineering texts. (I'm close to my BS in physics). Most things I've read though seem so not worth writing down. I hate reading 20 pages for one interesting paragraph. I need something pretty straight forward that moves quickly. I don't think I'm going to find that though, so whatever is thorough.

[Rich]

You probably have a University or College nearby? Go to their bookstore and look for some classroom textbooks on wood engineering (LRFD method) and get the steel bible (huge reference on design of steel).
For the business side go to www.toolbase.org and look for some book titles there under management.

[giddonah]

sweet. thanks.

[rgramjet]

giddonah,
I am not a plumber but I respect the work that my plumbers do. To say that it takes a few months to learn what my guys know is an insult. Sure an apprentice has to dig through some muck in the beginning. Slowly they are trusted with more and more responsibility. There are no effective shortcuts. You "detest inefficiency", wait till you make your third trip to the plumbing shop for a small single part, or when you need to buy more crown molding because you cant get the joints quite right. I just hope you can be honest when you report back to this forum with the progress you are making.

Guess what, I am also an "intellectual"(whatever that means) and I fully respect and appreciate the skills that my different trades bring to the table. Nothing can replace time on tools

Funny anecdote, my tile guy called me because of an unexpected layoff, he was looking for some quick work. He was in the process of laying a full tiled bathroom with sunken tub, stand up shower and 5' high wainscoting. His client walked in one day, stated, "I am an engineer, I can do this myself in a weekend". He paid my guy for the work that he had completed to date and sent him walking. Long story short, the "engineers" wife, saw the finished product and made him hire someone to tear out all the tiles and redo the bathroom.

.

[rgramjet]

Sorry about the double entry

[Cole]

rgramjet- Hey buddy where u been, you havent been on in a while.

[giddonah]

I knew someone would get their feathers ruffled. Yeah, I did the crown molding thing. My first attempt looks like crap, but people who don't know what to look for don't think so, but since the rest of the room is plaster and lath and is 100yrs old, it kind of blends in. I don't mean to discount experience. I don't think digging ditches teaches anyone about plumbing though. That's what machines are for. I've jumped into a few things while renovating and I'll admit I've found myself over my head a couple times, but I've made my way through. I certainly don't feel like I can ride in on my horse after reading a book and replace a tradesman with years of experience, but I do think I can make do. This is what differentiates between those who will always pay, and those who will eventually do it themselves. I don't work by myself. That would be pretty stupid. I try to surround myself with people who know more than I do.

You have to understand though, that in the city my houses are in, getting a plumbing license is literally dealing with orgainzed crime. I don't have patience for that (plus, I'm not Italian, so I can't get one even if I wanted to). If people can get through four years of high school in two, four years of college in two, masters' programs in one, you can't tell me plumbing can't be learned quicker. Cut out all the time spent getting coffee, lunch, digging, waiting, standing around...

I don't want to be a plumber though. I just want to learn it to do some things myself, but more importantly to know what people are charging me for. I know people who spend $4000 on a $1200 computer just because they don't know. I refuse to be one of those people.

By the way, my bathroom tile looks great :wink:

[giddonah]

rich, is this what you're talking about:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0784400415/woodwebA/102-3688480-2124900 :?:

[rgramjet]

Hey Cole, Ive been laying low til the heat is off!

G, no ruffled feathers....curious though, whats your degree in?

Its funny, here in DC we have the opposite problem. Inspectors dont give a rats ass what anybody does. I actually got residential elevator close-in and final inspections over the PHONE!!! After calling the inspection office for 2 weeks to schedule the inspection, I finally got through. I made the woman give me the inspectors cell phone number and I called him directly. Told him I needed to close in the shaft with drywall. He said he couldnt make it there but he would pass me. I was taken aback...."Dont you need to see it?" I asked? He replied, "I trust ya!". I sent my assistant over to pick up the sticker.

Needless to say, I covered all my bases by taking numerous photographs and had my structural engineer come in and sign off on it.

Working in DC never ceases to amaze me...

[giddonah]

Hot damn. I want those inspectors! I studied physics and stopped just short of my bachelors due to life. I wish I could be a student forever. I think I can finish it in a couple semesters if I can take the time.

[rgramjet]

Yes, but the question becomes.....Would you want to buy a house inspected by those bozos? I always over build, but there are many in our field that end up cutting corners. That gets scary especially on items like decks and elevators and electrical and plumbing etc....

[giddonah]

Yeah, and I see that a lot too. It seems like it's done up here when the builders "know the right people" :wink: :wink: . I overbuild too, and I'd like to deal with them just so I don't have some guy telling me I need to dig square holes with 6" x 6" formed footings just for a car port. I'd rather be free to build to code and then some and be left alone. If some people don't play by the rules, what's the sense in having refs?

And no, I wouldn't want them to be the final word on anything I would buy. That's why I'm here and why I'm reading code books, so I can inspect them myself. I don't really trust others with my safety. Even when people are trying to do their best, I've learned that sometimes their best just isn't good enough.