Roof truss spacing

[robby]

Hi! I'm having a new house built here in Connecticut.

The builder plans to use 2" x 4" roof trusses spaced 24" on-center. I understand this is pretty typical.

Should I have the builder decrease the spacing to 19.2", or even 16"?

As an engineer (not structural, though), I understand that trusses are incredibly strong. Nevertheless, they look so flimsy, and I tend to want to have a large margin of safety. I also want to be able to safely add more blown-in insulation, which rests on the drywall.

In addition, the builder uses 1/2" ceiling drywall, and 24" seems like a huge span for this. As the builder is a production builder building out a whole subdivision, he doesn't want to increase the drywall thickness.

He will, however, increase the number of trusses. He wants $2,500 more for 16" spacing, and $1,750 more for 19.2" spacing.

If I upgrade, am I wasting my money?

Thanks!

More details:
Type of trusses: Fink "W" trusses
Span: 28 feet (with interior walls down the centerline of the house)
Length of house: 52 feet
Roof pitch: 7/12

[bkrahmer]

If I upgrade, am I wasting my money?
In a word, yes. If you want to ensure that your roof is strong enough, do the following: 1. Get your local snow load from your building department. 2. Add 10-20%, and tell them to design the trusses to that snow load. 3. Use 5/8" plywood for sheathing.

[robby]

It's a production builder, not custom.

The roof is already designed. The builder is not going to redesign anything.

The builder also won't change the materials he uses. He uses 7/16" OSB sheathing. (That's what's used on the exterior, walls, anyway. Is the roof the same?)

He is only willing to increase the number of the trusses. Should I do it? I have to decide by tomorrow morning.

[Rich]

The 24" o.c. is fine if designed by your local truss manufacturer. Do you have the final construction copies of the trusses with stamped engineer approval?? They should provide that to you.
If you've signed a contract and you want 5/8" sheathing on the roof - then the dumb SOB should put 5/8" on the roof. As well as upsize the interior drywall to 5/8" on the ceiling - not doing 5/8" drywall is complete ignorance.
Ranting - this kind of crap is what gets me fired up about the residential industry right now. Not giving a homeowner the ability to change stuff in a home they're going to (possibly) spend 30 years paying off. And not only that - but specifying crap materials, taking short cuts to increase profits, not being flexible, screwing the subcontractors, hiring the (most often) least qualified subcontractors performing at the lowest price.
Get with it.

[robby]

OK, I talked to the builder again, and he will increase the ceiling drywall thickness from 1/2" to 5/8" for $750.

The builder normally uses 1/2" OSB roof sheathing. He's going to get me a price for 5/8" OSB sheathing. It will probably add $1,000. (He said "more than $750.")

Based on what you folks are saying, I should make these two changes and leave the truss spacing alone, right?

[bkrahmer]

WTF, WTF, WTF?!?!?!?

'Upgrade' your ceiling drywall to 5/8 for $750? As Rich said, everyone should use 5/8 for ceiling. Hell, I have 5/8 drywall on the ceiling of my shed. Now, I'm figuring about 50 sheets of drywall to do your ceilings. Last time I looked, 5/8 was about $1.50 higher per sheet. That's what, $75 worth of materials difference?

This guy is a crook.

I admit that I used 7/16 OSB on my roof, but I have 16" truss spacing (hand-built trusses.) It felt pretty solid to me.

For the roof sheathing, we are talking about 62 sheets. The cost difference between the two [1/2 and 5/8] couldn't be more than about $4. That's a difference of $250.

Again, the guy is a crook.

You are probably stuck with this guy, so this is what I would do: Call him on his BS. Go confirm my figures with local materials quotes, and then present them to him. Ask him why he intends to make a 1000% profit markup on a materials change with virtually no added labor cost.

[Cole]

OK, I talked to the builder again, and he will increase the ceiling drywall thickness from 1/2" to 5/8" for $750.

The builder normally uses 1/2" OSB roof sheathing. He's going to get me a price for 5/8" OSB sheathing. It will probably add $1,000. (He said "more than $750.")



WHOA, WHOA this guy needs to learn how not to f**k a client. If I were you I would take bkrahmer's advice.

:shock: :shock:

[robby]

I agree that I'm getting screwed, but I am kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Basically, what it comes down to, is that this is a production builder who is working on 60 houses simultaneously around Connecticut. The builder does not like change orders or upgrades. They try to discourage them, I am finding, with outrageous pricing. They want to use the same materials for all of their houses that simply meet the minimum code standards.

The builder doesn't negotiate prices, and hasn't since we started. Take it or leave it. I guess the demand for houses around here is such that it is a seller's market.

We already have signed a contract to build, and paid 10% down. At this point, I can either take it in the shorts and pay for the "upgrades", or end up with (in my mind) a substandard house.

:(

[giddonah]

Man, the devil in me just wants to get into the business because even if I only screw people half as much as I've been hearing I'll be makin' tons of cash!!!


Don't worry, my angel is stronger :wink:

[Rich]

That's what I'm basing my whole business model on giddonah - not screwing the owner. I think (through experience) that I can provide a cheaper overall price with better quality materials and construction methods compared to other builders.

It's too bad that you're stuck where you're at robby.

[Tom R]

Robby,

Aside from the 'money' issues, - - I don't think you should go with the 5/8" ceiling unless you also go for the 16" spacing on the trusses. I could be wrong, - - but I would think the 5/8" drywall would eventually sag from it's own weight if it's only attached at 24" centers.

[Rich]

Maximum spacing of framing members: 1/2
and 5/8
gypsum panels are designed for use on framing centers
up to 24
; 1/4
and 3/8
panels on centers up to 16
(but neither is intended for single-layer application). In both
walls and ceilings when 1/2
or 5/8
gypsum panels are applied across framing on 24
centers and joints reinforced,
blocking is not required. Neither 3/8
nor 1/4
SHEETROCK Brand Gypsum Panels are recommended for
use on steel framing as base for water-based texturing materials. When a water-based texture is used on ceilings
with framing 24
o.c., 5/8
gypsum panels, 1/2
FIRECODE C core panels, or 1/2
SHEETROCK Brand Interior
Ceiling Panels—Sag-Resistant should be used to prevent sag.

[steeve]

This guy is a crook.

bkrahmer is right, the way he's screwing you on wallbord and sheeting... i wouldn't even want to change the color of the wall...better go through your contract and read in between the lines....try to get a credit for work you want to modify and hire another sub, how much does that 10% represent$$$ and what stage are you at? framing?[/quote] :shock: