Builder/GC vs OwnerBuilder

[MikeD]

Hi gang,
As some of you know I'll be GC'ing as an ownerbuilder sometime this spring (Apr-May). Over the last week I've cruised around looking for framers and subs and to check out their work. At one of the custom home being framed. I happened to talk to a builder who dropped in and he didn't mind me nosing around and we got to talking. He claimed (as most other builders/GC's I talked to before) that he can build cheaper than I can.
So why is it that they always say that? I told him if he can do it cheaper using my specifications then I'll consider his service. Do you guys do that too? No offense intended!

[Rich]

Typically a builder can Build cheaper - but not operate cheaper. By that I mean they can purchase materials cheaper.. but all GC's have overhead of which an owner builder does not.
Now in the long run with errors in planning (if you don't have a good plan), changes in scope, missed scope, and that sort of thing the builder may be able to do it cheaper.
I'm all for homeowners doing it on their own - as long as they realize what its going to take up front and plan accordingly. There are large risks associated with doing it yourself that a builder either has already figured out and/or is able to absorb.

[Cole]

Couldnt have said it any better, Rich.

[MikeD]

I agree what you're saying Rich. I suppose that there are alot of things typical homeowners don't know about involving in home building. I'm sure that I will run into things I didn't anticipate. But I've been planning for the past year though. Thanks for being around to help out.

[Cole]

Mike, go for it.

[Rich]

Don't think I'm trying to talk you out of it Mike. Go as far with it as you can - and if you run into trouble there are quite a few people here who are more than willing to help.

[Cole]

. Go as far with it as you can - and if you run into trouble there are quite a few people here who are more than willing to help.

Yup!!! :D

[MikeD]

Oh, I'll definitely go for it and I'll be around! Glad I found this site awhile back. It's nice to have pros around to answer questions here!

[MikeD]

Hey gang. I don't have much time now to type much but want to say that I acted as a GC starting back in Sept '05 and moved in around June '06. It was a learning curve for me but handled it well since I did a lot of planning and studying. Boy, there was always problems but nothing that I could not handle. I'll post some pics later this week.

[HDNord]

We just finished our home that we did as an owner/builder and did it for less than what we were quoted by a builder by about $25 a foot. We probably paid a little more to some subs than a GC would pay but saved a lot on the stuff we could do ourselves. Even wound up doing a few things that we did not plan on because of problems with subs.

Warning, being an owner builder is not as easy as many think it is. Even though we have had considerable experience in home improvements putting it all together can be very challenging.

My advice is to have a backup plan for help with planning and when you have questions or problems. We hired an experienced GC that we paid as an advisor ($60 per hour) and probably used him for about 20 hours. We also did our own plans, bought Chief Architect software, and hired an architect also as an advisor for the homeplan portion. Used the architect for only about 6 hours doing the plans but we probably used the contractor about that much time for the plan portion of the project. Also paid to have the plans engineered but that was required anyhow because the home is on a hillside.

One of the problems we had was getting a good price from some subs. A GC that will give them a lot of business over the years will get a better price than the owner/builder. We were able to get some good prices with some because they were trying to get jobs in the area we were building. The lot was in an expensive part of town with all custom homes and some subs were eager to have builders in the area use them. That strategy worked well for the Stucco sub, a couple of GC in the subdivision now use him after they saw his work on our home.

Another thing we found was it took longer than we thought. Mike, you did much better than us getting yours finished but our home was very complex, two levels on a hillside. Took us almost 11 months to finish enough to move in. I still have part of the downstairs daylight basement unfinished but will do that over the next two years all myself.

[MikeD]

HDNord, I agree that owner-building is not for everyone. Seems like those who do usually goes way over budget or don't finish in time (if at all without giving in to a pro GC). Also agree that some subs don't give a good quotes.

[MikeD]

I remember during the build I had to resolve some of the problems quickly and therefore did not have time to post here. Do you guys want to hear about some of the problems I went through which some are (IMO) common and not common? Also, I will have some minor questions later. Just need to find time to put it together with pics.

Here are some pics of my home. I received lots of compliments from different subs especially about my garage setup.

Front as of Dec'06 (note that I did the final grading and seeding myself!)
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/MikeD94/Home/Front_Dec06.jpg

Front as of Mar'06
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/MikeD94/Home/Front_Mar06.jpg

Front/Side as of Mar'06 (note that front garage w/one garage door is really the size of two car garage).
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/MikeD94/Home/Garage_Side_Mar06.jpg

Rear as of Feb'06
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/MikeD94/Home/Rear_House_Feb06.jpg

[Cole]

Nice Work!!!!

[David]

I remember during the build I had to resolve some of the problems quickly and therefore did not have time to post here. Do you guys want to hear about some of the problems I went through which some are (IMO) common and not common? Also, I will have some minor questions later. Just need to find time to put it together with pics.


Yes, of course we'd like to hear your experiences, common or otherwise. Pics are great, too.

I'd like to know what you ended up paying your mason for labor as well as materials, if you don't mind sharing numbers with us.

And tell us what you were forced to do yourself and what you wanted to do yourself. Inquiring minds want to know.

[MikeD]

Thanks Cole!

David, IIRC, brick work (material and labor) cost around $21k. I was not given a break down of materials. But did looked into cost of bricks (around $350 per 1000). I think labor and overhead is 2/3rd of total cost.

I'll post some experiences later.

[MCC]

We Are Builders And If We Can Sb Contract Cheaper To A Reputable Company We Do. Just Remember Know What Your Getting Its Not Cheaper If It's Less. Also Make Sure Insurance Is In Place And They Pay There Bills.