Construction Management

[Rich]

What does CM mean to you? What functions does the CM provide to an owner, in your mind? What do they provide to a General Contractor? What is the difference between a General Contractor and a Construction Manager? Post your thoughts..

[Clarke]

I think the primary difference between a Construction Manager and a General Contractor is the positioning. In a General Contracting type of contract, the arrangement seems to be more of an "us against them" with the Client being the them. In an Construction Management type of contract, it's less about who's against whom but more about putting together a team to work towards a common goal. Construction Management contracts afford one the opportunity to work with a hand selected team and less of a collectin of the lowest bids. I think that this type of arrangement genuinely benefits the customer. It is not the most economical way of handling a project - but - I think it's the best way. Now, if I could only sell these merits to our prospects!

[grumpydasmurf]

I agree with Cr, on this one.

My experience with general contractors and construction managers is also this:

Construction managers will charge a flat fee and hire subs to doo the work but they usually let the customer make the decision which sub to hire. Ofcoarse they advise the customer.

General Contractors usually try to keep subs info private and privelaged. The sub gives the gc a contract and the gc adds his percentage, and retypes the contract in his own letter head and presents that contract to the customer.

[Rich]

Good stuff..
Now think of adding the 2 together. A GC being the CM, and much more difficult a CM being the GC also. What difficulties do you see in each of the arrangements?

BTW - this is not going anywhere other than to get information and thoughts on the 2 roles of Construction Managers and General Contractors for others that may not know the differences.

[grumpydasmurf]

Admin, I'm no expert in this area but I have a definition of what a GC and CM are, in my head. Who knows though, the book may be different.

Having said that there is a nation wide construction firm called president homes. Basically they sell off the shelf homes. They say they act as a GC, but really they are CM. They do the work for a flat fee. They give you proposals and you pick your subs at their advice. You as the customer are managing the project at their advice.

I was thinking of hiring them for my first home. Their fee is 10k any size home. This way when building my first home I have a bit of hand holding and in my own mind the 10k is an education.

I think GC's often play the role of CM with picky customers... but I don't think a CM should ever play the role of a GC.

[Rich]

I agree with your last statement. Being a CM, or paper contractor as the insurance company calls it, is a totally different thing than actually performing work. Oh - my definition of a GC includes actually performing some type of self-work on the project at a minimum. Typically this is the framing or concrete.
10k for the experience of a CM is not all that bad. Comes out to 5% on a 200k home which is pretty typical for general conditions on a project.

[grumpydasmurf]

I figure if I don't pay the 10k, I may end up costing myself that much correcting my mistakes :)

[Raafi]

What does CM mean to you? What functions does the CM provide to an owner, in your mind? What do they provide to a General Contractor? What is the difference between a General Contractor and a Construction Manager? Post your thoughts..CM = Construction Manage

oversight, inspection, schedule, works for owner, incharge of coordination, making sure constructor adheres to specs


GC=constructor, builder, center-pin for all trades, responsible for completing the job, coordinating subs, submittals, change orders, adherence to specs

Though some responsibilities may be similar, the approach and liabilities differ

[Raafi]

Good stuff..
Now think of adding the 2 together. A GC being the CM, and much more difficult a CM being the GC also. What difficulties do you see in each of the arrangements?

BTW - this is not going anywhere other than to get information and thoughts on the 2 roles of Construction Managers and General Contractors for others that may not know the differences.this scenario usually winds up happening when the owner is not knowledgeable in the construction field, in terms of how the liability differs

a cm is not a constructor, his job is to oversee, coordinate, but as was said, he is actually the owners, eyes, ears, and brains

gc is a constructor

when the two combine, or there is not a cm, depending upon the job, its size and complexity, a cm may not even been needed, and the gc usually works as the cm, or sometimes the owners "brother in law"

the downside of combining the two is that you have the wolf guarding the chicken coop

if everything is pretty much above board, you dont need a cm (on most smaller projects) but if there is either a lack of trust or professionalism (lack of trust not meaning criminal, just overall trust to be open and honest about screw-ups), a cm is critical

[Raafi]

just to add to the mix

cm

gc

ae/firm

now things should get interesting

[Rich]

Well said Raafi

[Raafi]

I know I am new to the forum, and I am not quite sure if this is the correct thread to post this.

But..........here goes.

Click here
http://www.ce.cmu.edu/pmbook/10_Fundamental_Scheduling_Procedures.html

and scroll down to Fig 10-4 and Table 10-2.

My question?

The author says that General Excavation (C)is an 8-day process and Grading General Area (D) is a 7-day process; and that both can occur simultaneously, with C being complete one day before D; with Excavation for Trenches (E) & Formwork & Rebar (F) commencing once C is completed.

According to my experience, one would not commence E or F until C is completed and D would need to be completed also. (ie D should have been a precedent for E&F)

Anyone agree?

[Rich]

Are you asking if I were to schedule it if I would put D as a predecessor to E&F? i.e. if I would have excavation complete before proceeding with trenching and Forming/Reinforcing?

In fact I would not complete general grading and excavation to complete before I started forming. The only time I would wait until excavation is complete is when the size of the project doesn't allow for a piece of machinery digging and a crew of men at the same time.

[Raafi]

Sorry for the prolonged absense, but i just started a new job, driving from south to central jersey

anyway, back to the question, the problem as i see it is that prior to forming, the cut&fill should be completed to get proper elevations

otherwise, you may have above ground sewer lines (a little exaggeration)