Bowed Interior Wall

[bic4jesus]

Hi Guys!

I truly appreciate your time to read this, and possibly offer any advice. My walk-thru is still 19 days away, but I am visiting the site almost everyday to see how things are progressing. Upon my last visit, which was actually with the site foreman (I was showing him where to hang towel racks), I brought to his attention a bowed wall in the bathroom, which has ceramic tile- cut to the bow. It's not horrific, but noticeable. He mentioned something about the placement of the shower possibly having an affect (I may have misunderstood him), and basically said that this sort of thing happens with new construction. I didn't press him any further, because quite honestly I didn't know if it was within code. I'm now writing because I want to know how I need to go about challenging this. It is stated in my contract that I must be satisfied, but I don't see us walking away because of this. We have already invested over $1,000 in upgrades, and truly love the home.

The home in located in NC.

When would I demand that it be replaced? Is there such a thing as an "acceptable" bow?

I did hire an agent, so I plan to get him on the case as well.

Thanx for your time!
Rod

[bic4jesus]

I forgot to mention, the bow is inward. I will try and post a pic of it.

[Rich]

First off - bows in walls do happen. Can they be minimized - you bet. My drywaller runs a 16' straight edge along all walls before drywalling. Then fill in any gaps 1/4" and less with shims and anything more than that they fur the whole wall out. Is there an additional expense - sure - about 20 minutes per wall.
The first thing you did right was bring it to their attention. I would create a formal recognition of the problem to the builder. Let them know you aren't 100% satisfied with the quality and you would like them to take a look at fixing it.

[Cole]

My drywaller runs a 16' straight edge along all walls before drywalling. Then fill in any gaps 1/4" and less with shims and anything more than that they fur the whole wall out.

My framer does that for my drywaller. :D

[bic4jesus]

Thanx for the reply! I measured the bow today. It measures out at 5/8" at its worse. I already contacted my broker who in turn will contact the builder. I'll let you know how this plays out.

Off topic... is berber carpet notorious for seams? I inspected that today (it was laid yesterday), and found a seam all the way across my 16X16 Great Room. The carpet guy happened to show up to make sure he cut out all the vents. I asked him about it and he said it would improve with room temperature, traffic. (There is no heat/electric yet)

I must admit, when we were choosing our carpets we were warned of the potential for seams to show on berber. But could this simply be their way of covering their butts???

From my research, seam tape isn't too reliable. I would appreciate any advice on this too.

Thank you & God Bless!
Rod

[Rich]

In your opinion does the seam show up because it's just a poor installation or because the material "looks" different. I've seen quite a bit of carpet pulled out because it was laid in 2 different directions on opposite sides of a seam.

[Zatol]

Where in NC is the house located?

[bic4jesus]

I really can't tell if it's a poor installation or not because I don't have the experience to make that judgement call. There is no "pattern" per se either.

The house is located in Spring Lake, NC.

I need to take some photos of the seam and post them.

BTW, it would be difficult to take pics of the bow since there is no natural light coming into that particluar bathroom. But I can try it with the flash.

Thanx again guys for your time and continued advice.

Rod

[Zatol]

Any updates? I build in the Clayton area of Johnston County.

[bic4jesus]

Any updates? I build in the Clayton area of Johnston County.

My agent is now waiting to hear back from the builders on the wall. If they won't fix it, I'm taking it to the owner of the construction co.

I've compared that same wall to similar homes of the builder and they do not bow inward.

As for the seam, they should be fixing that within the next few days.

Thanx guys! :wink:

[bic4jesus]

Well, the builder has said that they WILL replace the wall. So, I couldn't ask for anything more. Hopefully they will do a good job.

God Bless :wink:

[giddonah]

that's good to hear.

[Rich]

Right on bic4jesus

[bic4jesus]

When I go to re-inspect the wall, what would you consider an "acceptable" wall???

Is it normal to have any sort of bow associated with a bathroom wall where the shower is attached to? To me, it seems the bow MAY have occurred because of the installation of the shower. (It's a normal bathroom with the shower on the rear wall. But once again, the bow is on the right wall- right across from you if you were sitting on the toilet)

For example, what if it has at least a 1/4" bow?

I realize there is no perfect home. So, I just don't want to be asking for the impossible since I am inexperienced in this area. What should my expectations be?

Thank you!

[Zatol]

You are right.. The bow in the wall there is due to the lip of the fiberglass shower. If you don't fir out the other studs on that wall then there will be a slight bow in the wall when the drywall is placed. It is a common thing. For some reason, builders overlook or forget to compensate for the fastener strip on the shower or tub.

[bic4jesus]

Thank you!

Guess what... I went back and noticed another bowed wall. This one is the foyer wall with the garage on the other side.

It is an outward bow- to the foyer, instead of the inward one in the bath. I took a straight edge and laid it across the wall, and it rocks. If I were to guess, it's about a 1/2 inch bow. I noticed it upon looking at the hardwood floor- I noticed it was uneven along the wall. I then went to every wall throughout the house with the straight edge. Everything else was "acceptable", IMO.

This one has me more worried than the other. But, I'm trying to keep emotions out of this. We are due to close on the home on March 2, with a walk-thru next Wednesday. Part of me almost wants to ignore it, but I know I can't. I only say "ignore" because I KNOW I can't expect a "perfect" home.

But please tell me this- A wall SHOULD be plum, right???

I'm not being too anal by expecting straight walls in my house, right?

I just need to hear it from you professionals when I may be going overboard with my expectations of a new construction.

But, IMO, straight walls should be a given in any new construction... shouldn't it?

God Bless :)

[Rich]

I would say the only real way to get straight walls without going to structural select or metal framing is to use an engineered lumber product like TimberStrand. The cost is about 50-75% more than #2 white wood. Wood's inherent qualities do not allow it to be perfect.

[bic4jesus]

If you were me, Rich... what would be your acceptable allowance for any bowed wall?

When is a bow considered excessive?

Thank you!

[Dragon]

My personal rule is 1/4 inch for a stud.

On an outward bow that means center a 4' straight edge horizontally on the furthest point out and even it up. if the space to the wall on both sides is over 1/4 at both ends of the level then it is unacceptable.

[giddonah]

dragon, is that the same thing as laying one end of the 4' straight edge flat and having a 1/2" gap at the other end? I can't think of a difference, just thinking outloud.

[Rich]

I would agree with that too Dragon.

[bic4jesus]

Thanx!

Yeah, I bought myself a 4' level today. I'll be going out to the home tomorrow and do some measurements on both walls.

[Dragon]

dragon, is that the same thing as laying one end of the 4' straight edge flat and having a 1/2" gap at the other end? I can't think of a difference, just thinking outloud.

Well, you'd need a longer level.

[giddonah]

I thought you were talking about a 4' level with 1/4" gap at each end with the middle touching the wall making 1/2" total. No?

[Dragon]

No. That isnt a 1/2" total. That is a 1/4 total in 2 feet (both directions)

[bic4jesus]

I haven't had access to the house yet... its been locked up the entire weekend. GO FIGURE, and we're supposed to have our walk-thru on Wednesday. Well, they still need to pour the drive and do some touch-ups (clean) on the inside/outside. I think we'll be lucky to see a walk-thru Wednesday. Closing is scheduled for 2 Mar.

Anyways, subs should be there tomorrow. I'll take my measurements then. I'm basically going to center my level on the outermost part of the bow then measure the gaps on both sides.

I have a feeling they will be at least 1/2".

I'll report back Monday.

God Bless :)

[giddonah]

No. That isnt a 1/2" total. That is a 1/4 total in 2 feet (both directions)

I hate to beat this to death, but I'm afraid it's not as obvious as it probably is. 1/4" in 2' and 1/2" in 4' then?

[Rich]

It all really depends on where you put your straightedge on what number you come up with.. but the only true method is as Dragon has described. I can make 1/4" bow in a wall read 4" in 4' if I want.. when in reality it's only 1/4".

[Rich]

The attachment shows 2 walls - both bowed 1/4". 1' on each side of the peak. In the top image the level is placed with the end where the bow returns back to the wall and you come up with 1".. the bottom image is done like Dragon has said and you get the true reading of 1/4".

[Dragon]

Yes, the image on the left if what I am talking about.

Its simply a more accurate method.

[giddonah]

ok, I get it now, I had to stare at that for a very long time though. Rich, some color would be nice next time. I couldn't tell what as the wall and what was the level at first. Thanks though for straightening me out.

[Rich]

haha.. I'll see what I can do with the color.

[bic4jesus]

Thanx guys!

Well, I'm not much on measuring but this is what I did. I centered my level on the outward bow (once again, this is the foyer, not the bathroom) and measured a 1/4" gap on both sides. It does not go the entire length of the wall. It is located appr. within a foot of the baseboard trim and bows appr. 2' of the length of the wall.

To me, that seems like an acceptable bow. Also, I don't believe it's a structural problem since it doesn't bow more than a foot or so up the wall. Then again, this is not my area of expertise.

What do you think?

As for the bathroom... they fixed it "down" to a 1/4" bow.

[Dragon]

If it is down close to where the baseboard will be and is very noticeable you might ask if the sheetrock finisher can float the wall out on both sides. The change in color between wall and baseboard will draw attention to it.

[dhill]

I'm really surprised that a 1/4 inch bow is even noticeable. It's been my experience that good tape and bed guys can cover most all of those kinds of inconsistencies. I've seen them cover worse than 1/4 inch. I know that shadowing can throw a curve in a wall, but honestly, I think I'd question the tape and bedding, not the framers on something like this. Wood is rarely straight, especially the farm grown stuff we buy today that has such wide growth circles. Please excuse me if I'm missing something.

[Cole]

I agree.

[bic4jesus]

I guess it really noticeable since it's a white wall against wood floors. As you look down, you can see it curve. It's not a straight line.