Wall estimating with Arenasoft ?

[Timothy]

When estimating wall framing on a estimating program what parts of the wall do you use to figure out your MBF units ? Top plates, bottom plate & studs ? If so, do you have to figure out how many studs per. LF of wall before you can figure MBF of wall ?

[Rich]

Top plates, bottom plates, studs, and headers. Yes you will need to know the o.c. spacing and the height of the wall and how the corners and T's are constructed.

[Rich]

How is Arenasoft to use? Do you have the full estimating software or just the 2 estimating utilities?

[Timothy]

Thanks, thats what I thought. The program has a list of wall dimensions to choose from to enter into your estimate that include wall width, hight & o.c. spacing. I was hoping with all the spicifics all I would have to do is enter the L.F. . It also has a list of header sizes to choose from and you just enter the amount of openings for each size header you choose. Problem is, it also asks for MBF units. Not sure why it needs me to figure out MBF if it already knows width & height once I choose ?

[Timothy]

Its the first one I've tried so I dont have anything to compare it to. I'm going to demo Timberline next week. I hear its a preety decent program without getting into 5 digit prices.

[Rich]

Huh - you would think it would automatically calculate MBF - even the calculator I made for the site calculates BF and it's just javascript.

[Timothy]

The thing I dont realy understand though is that wall & header sizes to choose from and you just click on the one that applys to your job. It then enters it into your estimate but you still have to figure out the MBF to enter the amount of units for it to put a total cost. It seems to me once you pick the wall dimensions from the units would be in LF. it does the same thing with headers and truss'. How will you have this information on truss' if you hav'nt ordered them yet because you hav'nt got the job yet?

[Timothy]

I saw a post about your estimator on another post but my comp. was being moody and I could'nt get to it. Would you mind telling me how to get to it again. I got the comp. straightened out now.

[Rich]

Maybe it assumes you already have historic data on similar sized jobs. I'll have to download the trial.

[Timothy]

Do they make a nail gun for typing? My fingers are way to slow!

[Rich]

LOL

[Timothy]

I would greatly apriciate any info you come up with. I've been a carpenter for many moons but other than small side jobs I'm new to the estimating aspect of it. Thinking of getting my license and going full time contractor but want to make sure I'm not getting in over my head. I know if I cant do reasonably accurate estimates I'll never survive.

[Timothy]

By the way, Great logo! hope I can come up with somthing that good.

[Rich]

Goto www.malbardesign.com - he's great to work with and very cheap.
Ok - I've downloaded and installed arenasoft. I would probably save the money and get the National Construction Estimator.. way more intuitive to use and less than $100. Honestly - Areansoft is kind of a pain in the a$$.

[Timothy]

Thanks for the info. I thought the same thing about the arenasoft. Seems like alot of work for something thats supossed to make something easier.

[Rich]

Really it's just taking RS Means database and making it more difficult :) I would rather leaf through an RS Means book and find what I'm looking for.

[Timothy]

I think I'm gonna have to pick up an RS means book. I tried the estimator you posted but had to download an excel veiwer to see it. I cant enter numbers into it though. Do I need to purchase Excel to use it?

[Rich]

You don't have Excel? Anyway - the template only does the calculations - you'll have to do takeoffs manually (the best way) and input the costs per unit and number of units, production rates, etc.. it's only a repository for the information.

[Timothy]

I wil before the day is up. I've had a couple others tell me I need to get it to. I'm getting the idea its best to just take the time to create my own data base with RS means book as a guidline. What do you think ?

[Rich]

The best thing to do is to have historic data to estimate with.. but of course that's difficult if you've never had to track it before.
I have problems with preset databases in that they don't know how you perform the work or how quickly you perform the work. They take a national average of what they've gathered from other people.
You may be able to use it as a guideline but you'll definately want to give it the BS test before submitting any estimates with it.

[Timothy]

I did an estimate on Arenasoft with the RS means data for the city the job is in and was suprised at how close it was to the manaul estimate I did for the same job. The labor/material rates where very close but the m/h per unit are a high. For instance, 14 hours to sheet 15 sq. roof with 1/2 CDX. But the arenasoft estimate was within $1000 of my actual estimate on a $38,000 job with no ajustments to means prices. I thought that was'nt to bad out of the box. As I said before though, I am fairly new at estimating.

[Rich]

That may be the true in some cases - that the price will closely reflect through 2 different methods. The things that RS Means or National Construction Estimator or any of them can predict or take into account is complexity and high grade materials. I've done the estimate of my current project on a few other software packages - National Construction Estimator, an online basic one, and one that the company I work for uses for 100 million jobs. All of them didn't even come close and if I would've used them under different circumstances I would've lost about 9 million on this current house. So don't rely on it completely.

[Timothy]

Is RS means fairly consistant on basic biulding material prices such as studs, headers, 2x, drywall ect... and if not is there another way of getting prices without taking a take off to the lumber yard. Have you heard of lumber yards providing a web site to get current prices ? I would think the most acurate way would be to take a take off to a couple yards. Problem is, I wonder how good a deal I'm really getting. It's hard to know without doing an itemized price check. Do you just except the lowest bid from a few different yards and then stick with that one for every job? Hope I'm not asking to many ? here. I trying to learn as much as I can.

[Timothy]

Just downloaded 2005 National Construction Estimator. I like it so far. Easy to use, not to complex for those just getting in to estimating. Easy to find sections and change costs to meet my needs. Do's seem a little low with some costs but as I said, very easy to change. Rich, thank you for your time. I think I'm headed in the right direction. One last favor if it's not asking to much. I'm just curious how my bid was on the job I'm currently doing. 800sq' addition, 20'x40',slab already done, 8' walls, 6/12 truss' 40' span, comp. roof, stucco ext., rock, tape & texture, 4 interior doors, 1 slider, no plumbing, HVAC, or F.F., minamal elect.. My bid was 38,000. The two closest were 55,000 and 90,000. I've done 3 estimates that all came out the same. I should net 15,000 give or take 1000. It's a very basic addition and I'm not sure if there to high or I'm a little low. It's in Stockton, Ca.

[Rich]

I wouldn't stick with one yard over another.. then you will get screwed. Every estimate is another estimate. Unless you're building tract homes and you just purchased 1000 bunks of plywood :)
I tried setting up a website for current pricing in a community in MT - nobody was interested. I think mostly due to competition and the everchanging rates of materials... they would have to dedicate people to updating the database.
I would do a check on the majority of the materials.. such as stud unit prices and plywood unit prices.. things like fasteners aren't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.

Is RS means fairly consistant on basic biulding material prices such as studs, headers, 2x, drywall ect... and if not is there another way of getting prices without taking a take off to the lumber yard. Have you heard of lumber yards providing a web site to get current prices ? I would think the most acurate way would be to take a take off to a couple yards. Problem is, I wonder how good a deal I'm really getting. It's hard to know without doing an itemized price check. Do you just except the lowest bid from a few different yards and then stick with that one for every job? Hope I'm not asking to many ? here. I trying to learn as much as I can.

[Rich]

Honestly if you were to be perfect your bid would've been 54900 :) Sorry - couldn't resist. Seriously though - with all the exclusions/inclusions you might be a little low but not much. The biggest part of your price difference is probably overhead and what you want for profit.
I've done complete projects for the same price ($47 / sf) but it was a cabin :)

Just downloaded 2005 National Construction Estimator. I like it so far. Easy to use, not to complex for those just getting in to estimating. Easy to find sections and change costs to meet my needs. Do's seem a little low with some costs but as I said, very easy to change. Rich, thank you for your time. I think I'm headed in the right direction. One last favor if it's not asking to much. I'm just curious how my bid was on the job I'm currently doing. 800sq' addition, 20'x40',slab already done, 8' walls, 6/12 truss' 40' span, comp. roof, stucco ext., rock, tape & texture, 4 interior doors, 1 slider, no plumbing, HVAC, or F.F., minamal elect.. My bid was 38,000. The two closest were 55,000 and 90,000. I've done 3 estimates that all came out the same. I should net 15,000 give or take 1000. It's a very basic addition and I'm not sure if there to high or I'm a little low. It's in Stockton, Ca.

[Timothy]

If only I could get the home owners to tell me all the bids before I give mine. :D After I did give them mine and they told me what the other two were I got a little worried. :shock: Had to go back and make sure I did'nt miss something. I just finished estimating the same job with N.C.E. and it came out $1500 higher. I can live with that though, I really have no overhead and since I'm only there part time due to my current full time job I can't complete the job in the same time frame as a full time contractor. But the owners are okay with that considering what the next bid was. Thanks once again for all your help, it's givin me a little more confidence to become a full time contractor. It's a tuff decision to make since it would mean quiting my cushy city job.

[Cole]

The two closest were 55,000 and 90,000. .

:shock: :shock:

[Timothy]

Thought the same thing when the owners told me. And thats with the slab already poured and no ff. Basicly, a garage with a few intirior walls & electrical fixtures. 68.75 & 112.50 sq'. WOW!!! If those are the kinds of bids I'll have to beat I should stay pretty busy. :D