Package unit for residential use?

[rgramjet]

Ive got a friend thats in the HVAC business. He suggested mounting a "package unit" alongside an exterior wall and running the ducts from it to the interior of the house. I will have 2 zones, basement/first floor and second floor.

The advantages that he listed are, no interior condensation to deal with, ease of servicing, unlimited combustion air and lack of interior noise. Not to mention saved interior space.

He also suggested one for the second floor but I dont have any place to put it. Unless I build a faux porch at the attic level.

First floor is about 2,100 sf, second floor and basement are about 1,800 each. 9' ceilings throughout. Exterior walls are 2 x 6 which will get R-19.

Id like to get some thoughts on his suggestions.

Thanks,
Roger

[giddonah]

it sounds good to me. I wonder how you use the house though to have your zones set up like they are. Having a second unit in the attic would be kind of a pain unless there's an easy way up there.

[Sparks]

I've seen it done, but I would expect you would lose a little efficiency. How much would be dependent on your location and the lengths the installer went through to insulate the ductwork. I know it might not be much but you have to consider that now everything is outside exposed to the outdoor temps and conditions. Some brands of packaged units are susceptible to roll-outs and misfires when there is a strong wind and occasionally have to be reset manually. Ease of servicing would be climate dependent, in Buffalo it would be a hinderance to have a packaged unit break down when there's 4 feet of snow on top of it. Personally, I would put a furnace in a conditioned space but like I said, I've seen it done.

[rabadger]

It can be done but I do not recommend it. Package units are considered commerical equipment. They carry different warranties. A lot less than residential equipement. You can do the same thing with zoning using residential equipment.

Package units are rated differently than residential units. I don't think you can get a 90% eff package unit.

Do you want to go outside in the dead of winter to shut the unit down to replace filters? Or, is this a cooling only unit.

package units are a lot more to operate. How big of a unit do you need?
If it is a total of more than 5 tons bring in 3 phase power for a few thousand dollars.

If it is a heating/cooling unit the mice like to stay warm in the winter also.
It should be used as a last resort.

You should not use commercial equipment in a residential application and you should not use residential units in a commerical application.

The number 1 reason you get noise in a residential unit is because the duct work is not sized properly, and two many corners were cut to save a buck in the installation.

Not everyone stocks parts for package units.

[Rich]

You should not use commercial equipment in a residential application and you should not use residential units in a commerical application.
:shock: too bad I've got all the commercial units set already in my current residential project :)

[Cole]

You cant consider that a residential project, that thing is the size of a small commercial building. :P :lol:

[Rich]

Yeah that's true :)

[rabadger]

I have used commercial units in homes before. I just don't like to.

[Sparks]

What Cole said. Rich, I think I recall you talking about a residential project using a 40 ton chiller??? I once worked at a Hotel that only used a 38 ton chiller, granted it was only about 50 rooms.

[rabadger]

Hey Sparks - I did a Jjob in Chicago (the windy city )with a contractor. I sold him a Reznor PAK4 unit for fresh air makeup. The contractor desided to talk the owners into moving the unit to a different roof line one floor down to save a few $$$. He didn.t check with me or the rep. just did it on his own. Every time it tried to fire the doors blew off!
He paid for that one.

[Rich]

LOL - actually it scared me the other day. I was looking at the chiller and I assumed there were 4 coils.. each coil looked like it said 20 ton.. I had to make a few quick calls to make sure they didn't give me an 80 ton..

[rabadger]

Some times chillers are the only way to go. Our church has a chiller and has added on twice just by adding air handlers and pumps.

[Sparks]

Yeah Rabadger, some people don't understand that there's a science to these things! And yeah, I agree, chillers and boilers with reset controls are the way to go in commercial buildings, saves a lot of energy in the long run and there fun to work on! Rich it sounds like you got an interesting job albeit your heading for greener less crowded pastures and I don't blame ya there. My stress level went down considerably since I left the city and moved to Gods country. Peace and quiet, at last.

[rabadger]

You got that right. I can't wait to retire and find a small town somewhere where it is warm.

[Rich]

It is definately an interesting project. Large and way over-designed in mechanical, plumbing, and electrical. That's not even getting into the millwork and finish package.
Anyway - I've hijacked this thread and I apologize for that. :)

[giddonah]

Anyway - I've hijacked this thread and I apologize for that. :)
Stone him!!! :lol:

[rabadger]

I sold titus commerical alum. registers and grilles to a contractor once. The owner sent them to the wall paper factory to have the finish match the pattern. You really have to look hard to find them on the walls. I also have a source on residential floor registers that are alum. and come in different finishes. The problem is the min. order charge and set up charge. If you are not doing the whole house it really gets expensive. Not like the stamped stuff everyone is using for 2.98 each.

[JCA]

Well back to the original question, by package unit do you mean a gaspac?

[rabadger]

"package unit" is a broad term that covers all products where the whole unit is in one cabinet. spacepak could be considered a package unit. a gaspac is a package unit. Gas heat and A/C all in one unit.

Package Units include
mobile home A/c
roof top units 2.5 ton through whatever
computer room A/C and humidity control units.

Anything where the evaporator and condensings sections are in one cabinet.

[JCA]

Thanks Richard