Adding a Toilet to the stub in basement?

[AtLarge]

Hi Everyone. I have been searching here and throughout the net for more information on this and struck out. None of the books I've been able to find cover this either so I feel I've tried to research it as best I can. If someone here can help me I would appreciate it. :oops:

The situation:
2 year old house. Stub in basement floor has a 3'' PVC pipe and cap sticking up. That "appears" to go into a rubber ring which I assume goes into the cast iron line. The opening has concrete poured very close up to the pipe so I can't get that good a look. This is what I can see and there is also a foam type material around the stub as well. The stub is also tilted 10 degrees or so but I won't know how bad that really is until I pull it out. Now for my questions.

1. Do I have to chip out all the surrounding foam and back fill the hole with concrete so the toilet flange has something to secure to? If so, is their a certain type that's easier to remove later or is this not a concern?

2. How to level the flange? I know it has to be level but if the cast iron line is cocked, is there a "best method" for straightening up the downtube from the flange to the cast pipe?

3. Is just using a 3'' down tube into the rubber ring enough? Should I be looking for a 3'' threaded PVC male and screw it into the cast iron line before attaching the flange? If so, #2 is going to be trickier.

4. Any other hot tips? I'm not above taking suggestions and I always try to research as thoroughly as possible before tackling a job. I'm handy enough to be dangerous and I'm not above doing things twice if I'm not happy with the outcome of the first try. :shock: Just trying to avoid that here. Water and sewage makes a big mess when it comes to repairs. :D Thanx in advance. Bob.

[Pokey]

I'm far from being a plumber, but have tackled installing a toilet in my basement. I assume that the foam is there so you can slide a flange around the outside of the 3" pvc. I don't think that they make a 3" insert closet flange. With that being the case i would imaging you shouldn't need to fill the leftover space with any thing. as for the 10 degree angle in the pipe, i would imaging you can decrease that when installing the flange. when your done secure the flange to the concrete with some tapcons. The wax ring should take care of small variances in levelness of the flange.

anyways, my best solution, maybe someone else can do better

[roger g]

There is an insert closet flange which screws into place. You cut the pipe flush with the concrete and then insert the male part of the closet flange into the PVC. The outer part of the male part is rubber and you force it into the pipe. You then start turning the closet flange which is screwing into the rubber and expanding it making it a sealed fit. No glue or anything. If you need to change it, you unscrew it. You might be able to compensate for the 10 degree tilt. You could knock some concrete away from the pipe and straighten it


roger

[Sparks]

Sounds like you could probably remove the foam, rough up the pipe, prime, glue, install flange and let the wax seal make up the difference. I wouldn't worry about the rubber seal into the cast, that's what there made for. There won't be any substantial pressure being that normally you'd have a 3" pvc running to a 4" main.

[AtLarge]

Just thought I'd post a follow up.

I removed all the foam and used patching concrete to fill around the down pipe from the flange. The hole was quite a bit larger than the flange so I wouldn't have had anything to grab with the mounting screws.

The stub was cocked, not the cast iron pipe. I saw the flanges with the threaded gasket but they were too short. It was just as easy to go with a flange and 3'' PVC.

I had to go with 3'' anyway because there wasn't enough depth to use a 4'' flange into a 4 x 3. Should'nt matter anyway because the wax ring is a restriction anyway so why go 3'' to 4'' then back to 3'' again.

Between the concrete and the 2 3/4 Tapcon screws it's solid and level. The hardest part for me was driving the 3'' PVC into the rubber collar of the cast iron pipe. I ran the bottom edge of the down pipe across my 6'' grinding wheel to put a 50 to 60 degree taper on it. That combined with soapy water allowed me sink it an inch into the rubber. I was afraid to push, pound or twist it any further for fear of breaking the cast iron. As was mentioned it's low pressure so I don't envision any leaks.

That's all I got done last weekend with everything else going on so this coming weekend I'll be sweating pipes and that part I have a handle on. Thanx everyone for the suggestions and help!

[Sparks]

Sounds like it worked out fine. Keep us posted on your progress and feel free to ask away if you need to. There are a lot of knowledgeable people here and they're glad to help. :)

[Dormer_man]

I have a similar situation. There is 4 inches of 3-inch PVC stub sticking out of the concrete floor. There was a big enough gap around the stub, which is apparently called the "soil pipe", to use an exterior flange.

I went to Lowe's and got a PVC flange that goes around the outside of the stub.

I decided to test run the flange to see if it would fit. It slid down OK and bottomed out against the concrete floor but got stuck on the stub.

So I rocked and twisted the flange to try to get it off the stub. You guessed it! Instead of the flange popping loose, I pulled the whole stub out of the ground, with the flange stuck around it. There was the sound of dirt falling.

I looked in the hole and saw what you call a West Virginia coal miner's cave-in. There was gravel and topsoil heaped up in the PVC elbow, 15 inches down in the hole.

I stuck my arm in up to the elbow (my elbow) and pulled out everything I could.

Do you think any remaining gravel and top soil will be washed away into the septic tank?

Also, when I glue the flange to the stub, should I also try to glue the stub to the elbow 15 inches below, or does it matter?

[roger g]

Wow. Better you than me. If it was me, I would put the flexible end of the vacuum cleaner down the hole to try and get as much dirt and gravel out. Try to get a bigger diameter pipe to out down the hole temporarilly to keep more dirt from falling while you work on it. I would definitely glue the stub back on and then feed a hose down to wash everything away.
You learned a lesson that you should never bang two pieces of ABS together because it is VERY hard to take apart.



roger

[Sparks]

That pvc really gets sticky during dry fitting but you know that now :) . I would get out as much debri as you can with a shop vac or something and then I wouldn't worry much. Shouldn't bother the septic at all. Clean everything up well, prime everthing and install the pipe back into the flange (yes I would glue it). For the larger pvc fittings, I always use a tape measure to dry fit if the situation warrants to prevent situations like you had. Although, sometimes the fittings do not go as`deep as you thought and you end up compensating somewhere else, nothings perfect I guess. I haven't found a better way yet but maybe someone knows.

[roger g]

I'm like you Sparks with the measuring and the problems that go with it. I guess we should really take the time and measure the fittings just to see where the bottom out measuremnt is. Then of course the damn things don't always bottom out do they. Have you seen those all rubber fiitings from Furnco? Amazing things but not every supplier carries all if any fittings . I was in Texas when I first saw them and this place had every ABS type fitting all in the rubber Furnco style.



roger

[Sparks]

Yeah ya like to see em bottom out and usually measure accordingly but it don't always happen. I've seen those Fernco bushings in plumbing stores but I've never used them, they look like they would come in handy in certain situations.