Trane Furnace Schematic?

[midnightscape]

My Electrician tried to hook up the wiring for my new Payne AC unit this weekend and there is no schematic on the furnace door, just for the heat, wondering if anyone has an idea where I could find it. I have a serial number off the furnace and looking on Trane's site I found the furnace was made in '87.
Also when he made the connections to the thermostat (Payne digital) it would just say "HC" and then blink the temp when the furnace would try to ignite which it wouldn't.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Jason

[rabadger]

There is something very troubling about this post. Why would a HAVC company install A/C and not do the wiring and start up? What am I missing here? The Heating and Cooling contractor that installed the A/C should have wired it and performed a start up and ckeck on the equipment. :? Call the HVAC company back and tell them to finish the job.

I do not have anything against electricians. The electricians are just like the other trades some are more qualified than others. You must understand that some electricians are good at low voltage control wirings and some are not. In my area the term electrician is used every loosely. An electrician is anyone in the steel mill that pulls wire. If you want low voltage control wiring done you contact a HVAC contractor or electrical contractor that does temperature control wiring.

Does this furnace have a controls box with a cover? The wiring diagram should show "field wiring". If the furnace is a heating only model it would be older that 1987. More like the early 70's If this is the case you need to change the blower motor HP and add a fan relay. If it is belt drive, pully adjustments will have to be made.

On the back of the thermostat you should have terminals with letters next to them. On the furnace you should have the same coded terminals on the fan relay or blower board. If standard 18/4 or 18/5 stat wire was pulled the wire insulation should have the same colors.

The thermostat was made by a company other than Payne. The Payne name was put on it. Look at the installation instructions that came with the thermostat and you should find a wiring diagram.

Also on the new air conditioner you should have a wiring diagram that shows field wiring.

[midnightscape]

Richard,

My plumbing and heating people didn't quote, nor have been involved with any of the electrical for my addition (they also installed my in-floor heat boiler). I have an "friend" that is working as an electrician but hasn't gotten his license yet that has been helping me with all the electrical.

As far as the control box and field wiring and so on, I haven't even been in the furnace to look, I doing something else when he was doing the furnace wiring. I did take a look at the diagram for the stat and know that was wired correctly, maybe the wiring at the control box is wrong.

I did find a Trane dealer over the net and emailed my closest service center and they emailed me the install book with schematic. I'll see if this helps him.

[rabadger]

It should be in the installation manual and schematic.

[midnightscape]

Thanks for your replies Richard.

Jason

[roger g]

Maybe once a year we would do a job where it was the owner or the contractor only wanted a "qualified electrician" do all the wiring for an a/c hook up. In the summer months we would have crews installing a/c units so everyday our company would be installing 4-5 a/c units every day for weeks on end. We knew how to do the wiring. Usually our a/c competition would get a call from the electrician as to how to wire the a/c. Our company would get calls from electricians who were trying to wire up the competitions a/c. Wiring an a/c is not usual for an electrician. There is no reason for him to know. Pay the a/c installers to wire it up .We wouldn't release the refrigerant if we weren't starting the unit for warranty reasons.



roger

[Sparks]

:) Guy's, I certainly hate to sound combative or arguementative but for a seasoned trained Journeyman or Master Electrician, well, wiring an A/C unit is childsplay. No offense to anyone, really but electricians (trained Journeyman) are well versed in low voltage control circuitry as well as solid state electronics. ( Emphasis on Trained Journeymen)

[roger g]

I understand where you are coming from sparks but the reality is that being trained in something doesn't really mean that you can apply it. We have all seen it happen in many ways. Just because I've been trained in every aspect of gas fitting doesn't mean I have experience in every aspect. In Ontario we used to use low pressure gas so therefore we rarely ever got involved with pressure regulators. If by chance a job did require one someone else had already sized it and all we had to do (if someone had brought their gas code AND knew how to read it) we would check as to how to install it. When I moved to BC all the gas was high pressure and everyone knew how to size regulators. Not me. And I have been doing gas for a very long time.
In used to go to houses of refrigeration mechanics and fix their refrigerators. Refrigerators and refrigeration are the same but different.
Most electricians do the everyday electrical work and because of lack of opportunity (at least everywhere I've seen) never even get the chance to wire up a furnace or a/c unit. Because we did it on a daily basis it was second nature to hook up Y & C and run it to the contactor plus knew all the stupid variances of each manufacturer.
Like with any trade only a few take a real continued interest and of course have the abilty to retain everything. Even I am as dumb as a fence post on some things I've been trained on.
No offence taken sparks. It's just something I've seen many times. Come to think of it I'm sure some people think that of me and my ability...............ouch!.:)



roger

[rabadger]

Sparks,

I though that is what I typed? Just because you are called an electrician doesn't mean you know everything. A journeyman electrician may know, but the poster said he is having a friend help that has not taken the test yet. No matter what you do in life you have to know when to drop the tools and pick up the books. Some day he will be able to do it without looking. But right now there is a problem that needs solved. One of the best ways to fry a control is to try and instruct someone via phone or over the internet.

Look at the HVACR industry. Wich is better an refrigeration machanic that has experience with reversing valves and defrost cycles to work on your heat pump in the middle of winter, or a air conditioning mechanic that only works on one or two a year and hasn't been to the factory schools. Would you have a A/C mechanic work on your low temp walk in freezer?

I have been involved with HVAC for 27 years. That doen't mean I can do it all. If I am wrong, please correct me.

[Sparks]

I understand and I agree that both of you gentleman are correct on your points. I hope my point wasn't taken out of context. I agree that instructing someone over the internet can have it's risks but that really wasn't what I was implying. I have known many so-called electricians that are only good for pulling wire, etc. and I wasn't implying that this persons so-called electrician was competent and should attempt the repair. I really was only attempting to de-bunk the myth that some people have regarding trained and licensed electricians and their scope of knowledge and training. Low voltage control circuitry is only scratching the surface. Theres PLC's, fire and burgular alarms, motion controls, SCADA, high voltage, motor controls, vfd's and the list goes on. Most competent electricians can design and wire complex control panels from scratch, I've done this many times for unusual applications including phase loss mitigation for commercial buildings. In many facilities around here, electricians also take on the duties of plant engineer as well due to their extensive training and knowledge. Some people I've met actually think that all electricians do is change " sockets and stuff". Most people have no idea what an electrician really does. I understand both of your points completely, just wanted to explain the other side of the coin here with some open dialogue. BTW, I'm often called to troubleshoot commercial HVAC-R equipment as well as residential units but I also hold a Stationary Engineers License.

[roger g]

No offence taken Sparks. In the print medium it's sometimes hard to explain our view points in the way we normally explain and express ourselves.



roger

[Sparks]

Very true Roger g.

[rabadger]

I agree :D

[Sparks]

C,mon, I'll buy all you guys a beer. :D

[rabadger]

How about a Diet MT Dew Code Red?

[roger g]

Aw ............c'mon guys.............................you're making me cry.........................sniff! .......................Bawwwwwwwwww


r snif o sniff g sniff e sniif spit r

[Sparks]

:lol: :lol:

[rabadger]

come on don't cry.......sniff :( The day is done in Indiana, no money made, but tomorrow is a nother day :wink:

AND IT'S MAY AT INDIANAPOLIS MOTOR SPEEDWAY :!: