using builders felt instead of Tyvek, is that a problem??

[jjcold]

Okay, here's my next "Hey, is this builder building my house right?" question. first off, this house is being built in the Pac. Nortwest, an hour north of Seattle. Not so cold, but always wet!

It is a 1400 sq. ft. single level rancher, definitely an "economy" job but I hope not cheap junk.

The builder isn't using Tyvek, but is using "builders felt"- that black tar paper under the vinyl siding. He didn't wrap the window openings at all before installing the vinyl windows. He did stuff the gap between the windows and the rough in with a grey foam product (not expanding foam) and did some caulking on the lower portion of the window, all on the inside.

I wasn't too concerned about using felt paper rather than Tyvek since I keep my windows cracked open year round anyway. I figured a little air infiltration wouldn't be a big deal for me. However, I'm now reading about water infiltration problems behind vinyl siding, and the OSB sheathing ruined, and rot and mold, etc. Is Tyvek really that much better, or is it mostly a selling point? Is it really so much more expensive that a lower end builder wouldn't use it? am I going to have water problems in this house in a few years?

[Rich]

The biggest difference between Tyvek and felt is the Tyvek will not get brittle over time and it's much harder to rip or tear during installation. Windows should be wrapped with something on top of the installation fin. Most window MFG's will provide tyvek-like tape to go over the fin. As far as cost - tyvek is actually pretty cheap and takes half the time to install compared to tar paper as you can get it in 9' or 10' rolls (probably more).
I think water infiltration behind vinyl siding has more to do with incorrect installations of the vinyl siding and trim
itself.

[jjcold]

So, now I'm wondering, if Tyvek's pretty cheap, and faster to install, why in the world wouldn't every builder use it? Most around here do.

You mean putting "tape" over the window fin, like taping it to the sheathing? I presume they might do that prior to putting the felt on? that sounds like a good idea, I hope they do it!

[Rich]

Well as weird as it is - very few builders in Colorado that I've seen use it. I honestly don't understand why they don't. In Montana we used it on every house, garage, or dog house.
The "tyvek tape" goes over the fin and the tyvek.. the tyvek itself would go behind the fin.

[jjcold]

I looked at a house being built by a different builder recently and they had wrapped Tyvek around the framed wall between the studs and the sheathing. Before putting the sheathing on. Is that normal? I thought it was kind of weird.

After visiting some vinyl siding sites, I think my builder will use the flashing tape after putting the felt on. They better!!

vinyl siding sure is popular around here. I don't really like it, I would prefer fiber board that I could paint if I didn't like the color. Speaking of that, is it feasible to paint vinyl siding?

[RobH]

Hello Everyone.

New to group here but very familier with your topics and building construction. < The following is just my professional opinion on some topics after attending hundreds of hours of building science trainings, being 2nd generation in construction and living in the NW all my life. It's also still America and thats all of our rights. :D >

Yes, it's strange to see Tyvek installed under the sheathing because it will not protect it from bulk water. Sidings leak, face it. The builder is only installing an "air barrier" if tyvek is installed under the sheathing. Yes it will protect the framing but not the panels.

I read the post about vinyl siding and building paper and chuckled. Do builders really think that vinyl doesn't leak water behind it? The product has it's own weep holes for God sakes...couple that with building paper, that if repeatidly gets too wet, can rot and become a food source for mold. Thats a terrible wall system for the NW. Crazy...

Seattle builders are very confused about what is a good weather barrier and what is not. We should have a huge discussion on flashing windows and doors correctly, the source or 95% of the leaks.
It's like we forgot to read the fine print on products or looked at them with "water goggles" on. I examined a new product the other day that claimed to have "drainage" by the fact that it had cords woven into the fabric. I setup a little test assembly to check how well it performed. Two pieces of plex-glass with a funnel at the top so you can sandwich building papers in-between with a blotter paper behind one side simulating that water is behind the cladding and the blotter paper is there to see if it gets through the weather barrier.
Well, the product drained great but unfortunately it also drained right through it wetting the blotter paper in seconds. What a waste of money and time for the builders but it will probably still sell because of marketing.

Remember. Just because it passes code, it doesn't mean that it works well. "code" is not the pinnacle of building standards.

Want a good site to check out for building science.
www.buildingknowledge.net
Great guy named Mark Laliberte who is by far one of the best construction consultants I have ever heard.
He uses a quote in his presentation from Sam Levenson that I love.
"We must learn from the mistakes of others because we simply can't live long enough to make them all ourselves" (if I butchered it, forgive me).

Take care everyone and put on the water goggles when building.

Rob H.

[Tom R]

Rob, that was a great, informative post. Glad to see you 'exercising your rights'. Welcome.

[jjcold]

yea, I'm a bit confused when I see all this literature (in books and online) about how to properly flash a window, then you go to the site and the builder justs throws them in the rough in, shoots a few nails in the general direction and runs away fast before the window falls out!! Of course I'm exagerating, but I wonder how many builders actually take the time to do it right. then again, I really wonder what the consequences are of just puttin' them in, and putting the tape around the fin. I'll probably move out of this house before it becomes a problem, I hope :-)

[Rich]

It only takes one bad installation to cost thousands of dollars.. and I certainly don't want to pay for it during a warranty call. I guess that's what I call incentive to install it correctly - how much longer does it take.. 10 minutes maybe?

[mjpliv]

I have always been an advocate of building felt. Installed properly (50% overlap) it out performs housewrap as far as water pentration goes. The housewraps, as a group, do not handle standing water very well and without a proper rain screen (air space) they will wick water into the sheathing behind.

As far as getting brittle goes, building paper should last as long or longer than most exterior finishes or about 25-30 years. When the finish is replaced, so is the building paper.

I like using the bitumen type products for wrapping window openings. Its widely available in 12" rolls now for this purpose. Not only does it protect the wood structure around the opening but it also provides a resiliant surface for the window nail flange to seat into. Being a peal-and-stick product helps as well.