Legal question

[welshrabbit]

I didn't see a forum dealing with construction legalities so I hope this is ok...

How does one prove breach of implied warranty?
We had an addition built and the roof of the addition started leaking within two months. The "contractor" had already been fired for other issues within that time. His defense during our court action was that it didn't leak while he was there. :roll: The judge ruled in his favour saying we needed a witness to say that he caused the leak through defects in workmanship.
The defendant built the roof where none existed before and it leaked in four places. We have filed an intent to appeal the judgement but have no idea how to proceed. The roof has already been rebuilt but the contractor hired to do it walked off the job without fulfilling his contract so he would be no help.

Any ideas?

[giddonah]

do you have pictures of how the original roof was made? Can you get someone who worked on the roof with the guy to turn on him?

Barring that, I think you might have to move on.

Anyone else?

[welshrabbit]

I have photos of everything but the judge denied them the first go round. He said it was a case of he said/he said. The original builders seem to be a tag team. A man and woman who live together and work together. She has the license but he does the talking.

[giddonah]

why would he deny the photos? I can only think that he didn't want to look at something he doesn't understand. Is this a small town?

[VALENT]

This is exactly why references are so important. This type of work and "professionalism" does not pass muster and word of mouth does a lot to stop it. But, you have to check up on people before you hire.

[HDNord]

Did the contractor know the judge? Sounds fishy to me.

[welshrabbit]

The judge should know him, he's been sued/arrested enough times. None of our evidence was used. Nor was the defendants'. Both of us represented ourselves so we probably did something wrong. So we are going for the appeal and hopefully will have all of our ducks in a row this time.

The builder tied the gable roof of the addition right onto the existing roof without removing anything. He didn't use valley rafters nor did he use flashing. He didn't install drip edges or membrane. In fact, the two of them had a fight in the backyard over how to proceed with building the roof. The burden of proof is on us and that's where we're stuck.

We interviewed 14 contractors to fix what the first one screwed up. Over half turned down the job right off the bat. Of the remaining, we checked references and the BBB and the contractor's board. The ones we hired still abandoned the job. Go figure. It's very discouraging!

Thanks for the comments.

[giddonah]

have you been to a lawyer yet?

[Cole]

Moved to Horror Stories.

[Dragon]

There is nothing wrong with doing a layover for a roof on an add-on, providing you shore up the existing roof if it is even necessary.

It sounds to me like you have either some exposed nails or maybe a cut shingle in a valley.

I'd recommend getting a roofing contractor out to inspect/fix the job.

And it sounds like your judge isnt knowledgeable and didnt want to deal with it.

Hire a good attorney. Just because you can represent yourself doesnt mean you should.

Where are you from again?

[welshrabbit]

Just because you can represent yourself doesnt mean you should.

That is the understatement of the year. We're in VA. We've already had the roof redone and the roofer said the first contractor didn't flash the valleys and that is where the water was coming in.
We've consulted a lawyer and he told us we'd probably only get half of what we were asking and 80% of that would go to his fees. Nice.

[dawell0]

Our experience is that the lawyer is very expensive. See my other posting in Horror stories. We have already spent over $10,000 in lawyer fees. I hate to tell you this, but I would not appeal and just eat the cost to fix (I know how painful that is). I would also report these crooks to the BBB, Homebuilders Association, and the local news!

[montytx]

Just fix the roof and be done with it. I think we are missing a lot of the story here. From what you said you fired one GC then hired another who walked off the job. As a GC I try to avoid walking in on ship wrecks. Frequently it is the customer who is the problem. Changing direction everyday on the project and complaining about every inconvience.

[tooltroll]

...Frequently it is the customer who is the problem. Changing direction everyday on the project and complaining about every inconvience...

Sad but true. I've just walked on a job for my ex-landlord. He's a 30 year old farm boy who moved to the big city to make his fortune as a slumlord. The building is a 2 story 6-plex [originally 3 side-by-side, but they got split up/down in the 70's] and he's "renovating" them two at a time. We were supposed to be back in our newly done suite Jan. 15th... but he went over the deadline again... and again... and again... By March or so, he approached me about working on the building, saying he'd rather have me put in the hours instead of cash for rent... The floor plan changed almost daily, the kitchen and bathroom layouts changed almost as often [once he figured out for sure where the kitchen and bathroom were going...] He tells me to rough in the toilet 10-1/2" from the wall, since he's reusing the old one; when he goes to set the toilet, he's bitching and complaining that it's too close, even though he checked that the flange was right where he marked it. Well, duh! He decided to get new toilets after the plumbing was roughed in... Basically, he's making it all up as he goes along, and micro-manages everything so you don't dare do anything unless he's around. But he's never around- lazy bugger's playing on his computer most of the day. [Also too lazy to go shopping... several times he sent his wifey to HD, only to have her grab the wrong stuff half the time... 4" ABS instead of 3", 4" duct instead of 5", etc., etc., etc.] And then he complains that it's taking too long, and why can't I put in more hours, it's all my fault he's so behind, blah, blah, blah. He can't seem to grasp that I already have a job, and he's damn lucky I can help him out at all! [at a discount, yet... and he still tries to screw me on hours]

And he can't figure out why he can't keep anyone on the job more than a few weeks... most of the guys he's hired have lasted only 2-3 days. But it's always the other guy's fault.

May 17th, we finally get into our temporary suite while ours gets gutted. What a mess! He insisted on doing the finishing himself. Crappy cheap materials and fixtures, there's huge gaps in the casings and baseboards, the tub is almost 2" out of level [luckily, the drain's at the low end!] and, the crowning glory: he built his own cabinets... out of melamine... cut with a 24 tooth blade from the look of it... edges all chipped, screws showing everywhere... sigh. But Mr. Control Freak had to do his own finishing, when his building experience is limited to cattle barns. So we moved our stuff over and demo'd our suite and the one above it... and then everything stopped again, while he farted around with other stuff. Three weeks through June he says "I don't think I'll have any more hours for you until August, so I'll need cash for June and July by the 1st of July."

Buh-bye!

I'll pay him for June, even though it weren't my fault he stopped the job after May's rent was [almost] paid for, but I'll be damned if I'm going to cough up cash for July... I'm outta there! I'm mostly pissed by the timing... he knows damn well that I've been socking the cash that I'd otherwise spend on rent towards a proper vacation this summer- been planning it since April. Now, on one weeks' notice, he wants two months rent that was supposed to be covered by the rest of his reno. I haven't had a vacation in 15+ years, and I'm not about to cancel this one!

On the bright side: I don't have to deal with this particular idiot any longer.

Ummm. Sorry. Guess I needed to rant a bit... :oops:

[giddonah]

wow, I bet it feels good to get that off your chest.

[Tom R]

we checked references and the BBB and the contractor's board.

For those of you who are unaware, - - the BBB is nothing but a glorified scam, - - ANYONE can be in it, - - just a matter of paying them money. The first guy I ever worked for in construction was the biggest 'scam-artist' I have ever met (still to this day), - - and everytime he got reported to the BBB, - - he would just pay more money to stay in. Didn't take me too long to realize to get away from both of them, - - for good.

[tooltroll]

Yeah, it DID feel good. And now I get to contemplate what I'm going to do to the new place. My buddy who owns the place has given me free reign to do whatever I want... this should be good for about 5 years' rent... but he can only throw about $500 bucks a month towards materials, so it'll probably TAKE 5 years...