Outside outlets

[Russell]

I am building a new shop with separate electrical service (meter and panel). I have 2 outside outlets. My question is do I need GFCI or AFCI breaker or outlets for these outlets? :D :D

[mdshunk]

AFCI protection is only required for 120V dwelling bedroom stuff.

These outdoor receptacles for your shop are required to have GFCI protection. Whether you accomplish that with GFCI receptacles or a GFCI breaker is up to you. If these receptacles are not under roof, you are also required to have the new dome type "bubble covers" on them. (weatherproof while in use covers)

[Tom R]

md, - - is it my imagination, - - or do GFCI breakers seem to (falsely) 'trip' more often than GFCI receptacles??

[mdshunk]

md, - - is it my imagination, - - or do GFCI breakers seem to (falsely) 'trip' more often than GFCI receptacles??

It's your imagination, Tom. In fact, I have come to learn, that most of what you think you know is really your imagination.

It is, however, much more convenient (and I believe desirable) to use GFCI receptacles versus breakers whenever possible to have the "reset" be at the point of use.

[Tom R]

md, - - is it my imagination, - - or do GFCI breakers seem to (falsely) 'trip' more often than GFCI receptacles??

It's your imagination, Tom. In fact, I have come to learn, that most of what you think you know is really your imagination.

And here I thought you wouldn't get 'jealous', - - oh, well, - - there goes my imagination again!! :lol:

[Tom R]

Come to think of it, - - all other things being equal, - - do 'longer walks' not take more time?? :lol:

[Russell]

Thanks for the information. I think I'll go with GFCI recepts.
Thanks again!!!

[Sparks]

Don't forget the interior receptacles will need GFCI protection as well. This could be accomplished either way also, breaker or receptacles or one gfci receptacle and the rest wired from the load side of that receptacle.

[Russell]

I'm confused. Are you saying that all the outlets inside the shop have to be on GFCI breakers or recepts?

[VALENT]

Tom you are so correct. Longer walks do seem to take a longer time. You are a true wizard among men.

[mdshunk]

I'm confused. Are you saying that all the outlets inside the shop have to be on GFCI breakers or recepts?
Maybe, maybe not. If your shop that your building is a residential accessory structure, then all the indoor 125V receptacles need GFCI protection. Since the building has a seperate service, this might be a commercial building, and would not need GFCI protection for the interior recs. Here's the code (note #2 on the list of residential things that need GFCI protection):

210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for
Personnel.
(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
(1) through (8 shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor
located at or below grade level not intended as habitable
rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas,
and areas of similar use
Exception No. 1 to (2): Receptacles that are not readily
accessible.
Exception No. 2 to (2): A single receptacle or a duplex
receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated
space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily
moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug
connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or
(A)(8.
Receptacles installed under the exceptions to
210.8(A)(2) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements
of 210.52(G)
(3) Outdoors
Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible
and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for
electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permitted
to be installed in accordance with 426.28.
(4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
(5) Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section,
unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of
the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited
to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception No. 1 to (5): Receptacles that are not readily
accessible.
Exception No. 2 to (5): A single receptacle or a duplex
receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated
space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily
moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug
connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or
(A)(8.
Exception No. 3 to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently
installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall
not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection.
Receptacles installed under the exceptions to
210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements
of 210.52(G).
(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve
the countertop surfaces
(7) Wet bar sinks — where the receptacles are installed to
serve the countertop surfaces and are located within 1.8
m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the wet bar sink.
(8 Boathouses

[VALENT]

According to that quote, the shop would not need gfci protection. At least I cant find any thing in that code that would require a shop to have gfci breakers or outlets.

[mdshunk]

According to that quote, the shop would not need gfci protection. At least I cant find any thing in that code that would require a shop to have gfci breakers or outlets.
It's not that simple, Valent. Number two on the list is "Garages, and also accessory buildings". Just because it's he's calling it a "shop", an inspector will very likely call it a residential accessory building. This isn't your decision or my decision to make. It's up to the authority having jurisdiction in the area in which the shop is located to determine if it is a residential accessory building or a commercial building located on a residential parcel next to a dwelling.

[Russell]

Wow!!
The codes can sure be a nightmare!! I will try to talk to the inspector and see what he wants. It is a real pain right now because the old inspector we had here quit and has been replaced. The old inspector gave me the building permit and told me that if I couldn't get my addition and shop done in 6 months to let him know and he would renew the permit as many times as necessary. Now the new inspector says I have 3 MONTHS to finish a 2 story addition (which only has stem walls right now!!) and my shop. Also the old inspector said I could use regular breakers. I am afraid to ask the new inspector since I just finished rough in and panel wiring with regular breakers (except for the outside outlets) this last weekend.

Oh well, Life goes on.

:D :D :D

PS Do the outside lights have to be on a GFCI??

[mdshunk]

PS Do the outside lights have to be on a GFCI??

Nope. Unless you're also building a fountain, spa, or swimming pool, that code section that I cited is the complete list of residential places where a GFCI is required. If this is a commercial structure, there might be some others. If you're zoned as 'residential', this will be considered a residential outbuilding no matter what, and will need GFCI protection for the interior receptacles. Another option is to install heat in the shop, wall to wall carpeting, big screen TV and a La-z-boy and call it a "habitable room". Barring that, it's still just a regular workshop.

Remember, you DO NOT need to use GFCI breakers to GFCI protect receptacles. You may, if you want to, but it's cheaper and easier to just install a GFCI receptacle as the first one in the "string" and all the other regular receptacles after that one are GFCI protected.

[Sparks]

My assumption was (I know about assuming) that this was a residentially zoned shop being built for the homeowners use, not a commercial building. Therefore gfci protection of all receptacles inside or out would be required. Personally, this would be a non-issue for me, gfci protection is easily accomplished and not at all expensive.

[mdshunk]

My assumption was (I know about assuming) that this was a residentially zoned shop being built for the homeowners use, not a commercial building. Therefore gfci protection of all receptacles inside or out would be required. Personally, this would be a non-issue for me, gfci protection is easily accomplished and not at all expensive.

You're probably right. I just wanted to go the extra mile and explain it all out, since these posts are valuable to people searching the archives in the future.

[Sparks]

Well done as usual Md. Your explanations are as good as they get, I was just making sure the poster realized the requirements for outbuildings based on my assumption of this being a residential structure. I'm sure the AHJ would have filled him in if he wasn't in compliance, hopefully we saved him the trouble.

[Russell]

Thanks, you have saved me a lot of problems. Since I already have the panel wired with regular breakers, then GFCI recepts seem like the way to go.

[Tom R]

Good, - - you'll have 'shorter-trips' with those recepts!! :lol: