Proposal... Responsibility?

[grumpydasmurf]

I'm putting together an estimate for replacement of nearly 800 windows. I walked about 20 buildings in a sub division counting the windows. This is such a large quantity of windows I am contimplating how to word the proposal to limit my responsibility of quantity.

What I mean is if I missed a few windows, I don't want to be at fault :) I was thinking of presenting my proposal with a per window price and a estimated number of total windows. What are your thoughts?

[Rich]

I would definately do a unit price with a scope sheet saying something like "estimated window count at xxx - field verification required" - that's pretty lame but you get the picture.
Besides that I may seperate out O&P and make it a fixed fee - in a few instances it may make sense to do that.. do you really want the job? It's a way to show good faith.
800 windows? :shock:

[grumpydasmurf]

I like that "field verification required".

I don't know what you mean by seperating my overhead and profit. Give me an example of what you mean.

It's probably more than 800. I had 1 hour of sleep and haven't added up the total count yet.

[roger g]

Many years ago I used to do steel take-offs on large building like 20 storey apartment buildings. It wasn't that there was a lot of steel on each floor but usually what was on one floor was typical for the others. If you missed something on one floor usually meant you missed it times 20. After I did the take off my boss wrote up the offer with each piece listed. 600 of these, 723 of those etc etc. In effect they supplied only what they quoted. They did very well. As an aside, I was the only one who DIDN'T speal Italian. Since then I have always felt at home around Italians. True.

roger

[Rich]

On some contracts that we do we have set a GMP and use that to fix the subcontractors fee. Then no matter if the job goes over or under the sub will always get that fee based on the GMP. So if you save money on the total job - you still make the same fee as if you spent all the GMP money.
The owner saves money in the long run and the sub has more incentive to save money on the job.
So let's say you say there are 800 units to be replaced at a cost of $100 in labor and $300 in materials as your unit cost. 800x400 = $320000 - O&P (10% because it's easy) = $32000. Now the owner can see exactly what each unit is going to cost and what they are paying for your experience and ability to get the job done. If you end up installing for 350 each you are still getting 32000.
This of course assumes you are doing a T&M contract. If you end up doing the GMP as stated above - you will want to make sure that the contract has language in there that it's a unit price for 800 of them.. if they go over you will charge the unit price times the units plus 10% fee for each one over. Essentially a change order.
Geesh - this is way too long an explanation. T&M vs GMP.. no real difference other than how you get your profit back out of it. Whew.. I'll put a better explanation if you don't understand my ramblings..haha...and when I have more time to sit down and think through it.

[Rich]

roger - that's definately the best way to CYA. But the way I look at it is this. If I'm not competent enough to make sure I cover everything in the building then I shouldn't be bidding the project.
If I missed something in a bid - I'll typically eat the cost and provide it anyway. Sometimes it's just better to save face and do the right thing for the owner.

[grumpydasmurf]

Roger that's what I am thinking of doing, but my question is how do I word the clause? "Only the materials specifically listed above will be installed." ?

Rich I must need sleep because I have no idea what you are trying to tell me... at all. But yes I agree there comes a issue of responsibility. I don't want it but I look shoddy not taking the responsibility. Were talking well over 800 windows (I counted again) and if I messed up I could potentially mess up BIG to the sum of thousands!

Talk about it later. Sleep time.

[Rich]

Yeah... I would agree.. now that I read it again it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Probably really looks odd to you with no sleep..haha. I'll see if I can give a readers digest version tonight.

[grumpydasmurf]

Ok your obviously in a class above me when it comes to the industry terms because this is what you deal with daily. Let me rephrase in my terms and you can correct me if I am wrong.

Your saying I should give a lump sum estimate and if I made a mistake counting windows it's my responsibility to cover the loss?

[Rich]

I put too many different things in that one explanation and they kind of overran each other.. I need to write up a couple articles just on different procurement methods and the associated contract types.
If it were me I would give a per unit price with a per unit O&P. I would also put together a scope letter attached with the estimate. The scope letter should say exactly what you are providing with something (as stated earlier) about rough estimates are that there are 800 or whatever units to remove, procure new windows, and replace them. The scope letter should have items like mobilization times if there are multiple mobilizations, what is involved in the removal of the windows, the type of window (name, mfg, etc), weatherproofing that is going to be done, flashing, residing if needed, etc.
In the estimate I would say "1st mobilization will cost x amount, subsequent mobilizations will be an additional y amount." What this does is attempts to get them to do all of them in one shot. Going back to a job multiple times is typically harder than just going one time.
So overall you tell them exactly what you are going to do for each window replacement, you are covered for multiple mobilizations, they have an idea of what total price will be if they multiply the number of windows times your unit cost plus the mobilizations, and you are covered for all the materials (flashing, trim, etc) that is going to be provided.
I hope that's much clearer.

[grumpydasmurf]

I dislike the idea of revealing my O&P. I bundle it into the per unit cost. If they don't know what's material, labor, profit, overhead; it's harder for them to claim I am asking too much profit. I'd prefer to give them a per window unit price with the before mentioned added together.

[Rich]

I agree in some situations to hide the O&P. Many of our contracts that we write set the maximum O&P to a certain percentage. In other situations the O&P should be shown - it can help to get the job also. And then there is always the dreaded "open book" jobs :shock: