Scruffy lookin'...?!

[driftwood]

I hope you guys will forgive my complete novice status - I'm sure you probably do get a lot of 'are they doin' it right??' queries...so here's another!

I'm watching the construction of my first house - and for the most part, have been just really impressed with the process. They're roughly at sheetrock now.

At any rate, I did my first sort of walkthrough last week, and I have some concerns about the material being used, so I wanted to ask some pro opinions on it.

I guess I expected to see the same sort of 2x4's and 2x6's that I grew up seeing in my dad's place, which were just solid & smooth; but these are different. For starters, they aren't solid sawn lumber - they're finger jointed. I've read alot, and seems like maybe that isnt such a bad thing after all (?), but what I'm really itching about is that some (maybe 1/3) of the lumber is, well...scruffy lookin'! I mean, sometimes kind of knotty or even somewhat deteriorated (not real significantly, but enough to notice; now and then thinned a little).

Is this normal for what you'd expect to see used for framing? I just havent got a good critical perspective on what I should be looking for. I guess I expected to see mostly nice, squared, solid studs! The builder is Kimball Hill if that helps at all. Also, you can see pictures of the construction at http://www.ixio.net under 'image journal'.

Thanks so much!

[Rich]

I agree with your concern but it's not really anything to worry too much about. I see it happening more and more these days. Some structural engineer somewhere did a study and figured that framing materials really only need to be able to support load - not really worry about mid-span sway or shear. In the course of the study they figured out that the plywood / OSB actually does do what everyone thought it's been doing all these years - so with nailing into the studs - the plywood provides the lateral shear resistance to the assembly.
Well I could ramble on about factors of safety and how engineers CYA (y = their) but I won't. So anyway it is an acceptable structural method of framing - but that doesn't mean I need to like it.
Is there anything in the contract or specifications that outlined what framing material was to be used (typically #2 or btr)?

[driftwood]

I've got a copy of the contract on my desk at work - I'll look first thing tomorrow a.m. and respond to that.

Thanks for the quick response - you've got some really good activity rolling through here. So much good info - think I'll open another beer and read a bit!

[Rich]

Thanks.. I appreciate it.

[roger g]

They are cutting trees down so fast and shipping them off to market you might find some lumber with branches still growing.
I remember during the 1950's they were building a subdivision and the oldtimers complained about how poorly these homes were being built and the lumber was poor etc etc. Now people are pointing to those same homes and saying "back then they really knew how to build houses not like the crap they build today"!
Just a reality check.

roger

[jjcold]

today I looked at a duplex in our neighborhood that is being framed and you would not believe the beautiful lumber this guy is using. Straight, clear, free of cracks and checks, I would call it "furniture grade" if there is such a thing! It was the most beautiful lumber I have ever seen, and I didn't know you could still get lumber that nice! The framing job is the cleanest, most precise job I've ever seen, too. This guy must be the most anal retentive framer on the planet! BTW, he extends the sheathing beyond the sole plate so it overlaps the rim joist when he tips the wall in place. Only builder around here I've seen who does that! And, it's "only" a duplex!

[Rich]

Nice to see that attention to detail when the budget allows for it. You should see the stuff we're using on my current project. All engineered lumber (Timberstrand) - now that stuff is straight with no size difference from piece to piece.

[grumpydasmurf]

I don't know if anyone brought this up but lumber is kinda measured in grades. Grade 1 being the best, probably what JJ was describing. There is also grade 2 which I think is typical and grade 3 which is the scruffy looking stuff.

For awhile we were using grade 3 to replace roof decking because nobody would see it, but believe it or not they would complain about it if they saw it before we put it up. We switched back to grade 2. We'd rather pay the few extra pennies than have a complaining customer.

[mjpliv]

With regard to the finger joint lumber having less lateral stability, I would have to disagree with you there. From what I have seen of the structural finger joint process todate (moldings excepted - I still think that is crap) its seems to me that cutting out the flaws and reassembling the lumber actually improves the performance. Typically, a properly manufactured finger joint is stronger than the original wood. There is an engineered joist available called OJ2000 http://www.openjoist2000.com/ which is similar to a plated floor truss except all of the joints are finger joined together. These joists out perform the other types on the longer spans.

It would be interesting to see some actual studies on the subject. We haven't seen this product in Eastern Canada yet, but you can be assured, it will show up eventually.

[jjcold]

On a typical 2x6 or 2x4 stud, what would be the average price difference between grade 1, 2, or 3? I would guess grade 2 was used in my house (it looked pretty good, but not as good as what this guy was using) and he was probably using grade 1.

[NAIL BENDER]

When I framed my house 6 yrs ago, the dimensional stud material was bowed, checked and barked, but, the finger joint studs were straight and looked nice. Now it all looks like junk. My last project I sent back 55% of the fj's they sent out and then 45% of the new stack brought out the second time. :x I told my lumber supplier not to send any more fj's, at least until I'm tired of bowed dimensional lumber. :D You just can't win unless you pay the price. :wink:

[ndemge]

went to lowes a couple weeks ago to get the studs for framing out part of my basement. 75 Studs... When we got done going through the pile, there must have been another 75 on the floor as our "rejects"