Kitchens

[CThomp]

Okay got the quote on the new kitchen this weekend from Lowes. My draftsman knows the kitchen guy there and said he would do a good job.

The quote is high. But I am going to have a big kitchen. Are there any brands of cabinets that are of the same quality as Kraftmaid but cost less?

Building them is not an option because of time constraints.

[Dragon]

I read this post yesterday.

I came back today only to realize that I am still in shock over the words 'Kraftmaid' and 'quality' being in the same sentence.

But I'll agree with you that Kraftmaid is wayyy overpriced.

I recently bid a cabinet job that Lowes had bid as well. Their bid was $14k for kraftmaid mushboard while mine was $10k for real wood. Lowes is robbing people.

[CThomp]

Will you come to Florida and build my cabinets? Just kidding. Arkansas is kind of a haul from me.

What do you reccomend?

Do you know anyone in Florida that won't rip me off? It's hard to find quality anything down here.

Thanks for the info.

The price I was quoted was almost $11K for the cabinets, $1500 for the countertops, and $2300 for the install.

It's scared the livin sh!t out of me for store bought cabinets.

[David]

Send your specs to Dragon. Let him build your cabinets. I'll drive to AR, pick up cabinets, drive to FL, and deliver cabinets. Then I'll scout for vacation homes for Cole. And, I'll enjoy a vacation myself. Say $2000 for delivery? Fair? ;)

$11,000 for cabinets, but only $1,500 for countertops? What kind of countertops? Glazed mdf? hahahah

I just bought some black walnut up in Iowa that I have to get down here. I'm making my own cabinets!! Err, at least I am gonna try.

[CThomp]

My time frame really doesn't allow me to make the cabinets. If the kitchen was the only job to do then my father in law and I would do it but since the kitchen is only one in a thousand jobs to get done, i've got to have them made.

The countertops were just going to be fromica. I want tile but the wife thinks it's a bad idea because of keeping grout clean and getting crumbs out of the grout lines. :(.

I was looking into that liquid glass as a possible grout sealer. It would just mean taping off all the tile and then painting that stuff in. But the idea will likely get blown out. Why did I have to marry a strong willed woman? She comprimises on many things though and I get my way on alot.

The first quote was even higher than that crap. I just looked at Kraftmaid's web page. Most of the standard contruction is engineered wood. Dragon's "mushboard." What crap. Thats the cost of a new car for press board.

[Dragon]

Do you have any local cabinet shops? I'd at least let them bid it if they can meet your timing constraints, and specify that you don't want any mdf or pressboard type materials used in the construction.

You can 'upgrade' the Kraftmaids to have actual plywood in them. But that'll cost ya more. :D

[CThomp]

I've seen cabinet shops around but it seems that most companies down here are trying to take you for a ride. I'll ask around. My electrician knows just about everyone. They all scratch each others backs down hear. It's the only way they can compete with cheap crap immigrant labor.

[David]

Why don't you ask on some woodworking forums. Put it up for bid. Heck, they can be made almost anywhere and (carefully) delivered. How soon do you need this done?

[CThomp]

This is a couple of months away. After I finish the room i'm working on now my wife and I are moving in with the in-laws for the rest of the summer. Then we can rip out the bathroom, the kitchen, hallway, living room, and dining room. I can put a demo crew together and get it knocked out in a few days.

But I don't have time to even think about building cabinets between work and working on other parts of the house.

[Dragon]

If you have a layout send it to me, along with any other pertinent info.

If nothing else I can give you some idea as to what you should be realistically looking at.

[David]

Forget cabinets, just use shevles. It's very contemporary, affordable, and easy to find things!







What hurricanes? :wacko:

[CThomp]

Dragon: Do you have a fax number? I've got the plans at home but I can fax them to you maybe tomorrow. I might drive home and get them today but i'm not sure if I feel like driving anymore that I have to in this weather. Thanks in advance for the help.

Dave: Not really into the whole contemporary thing. I'm kinda old fashioned. I've got a bit of antique furniture and I like the updated antique look.

Damn hurricanes :(

[Dragon]

I sent you a pm.

[CThomp]

Got it. Just sent the fax.

[Dragon]

If I were to build these cabinets the cost (installed and finished) would be $10,075 for stained oak or maple. Standard raised panel doors.

This price does not include countertops.

I did note that this layout did not include any bathroom vanities or other cabinets of any kind. This is only a kitchen and pantry/utility.

Man I gotta raise my prices. Custom real wood cabinets for less than what Lowes sells them for. I must be outta my mind. lol

I do wish there was a reasonable and cost effective way to get from NW Arkansas to Florida. I'd have these ready to be installed in 2-3 weeks!

Out of curiosity and for the heck of it I computed the trip. $2,000

Kraftmaid/Lowes, installed - $13,300

Me, installed - $12,075 with a very long drive

Difference - $1,225 saved and better quality cabinets.

Factor in that they are using cnc equipment with much lower labor costs and their profit is sky high.

[David]

And you KNOW you're gonna get a quality install. We've seen Dragon's work.

[David]

Out of curiousity, would one of you mind sharing the layout?

Dragon - do you charge more/less for glass paneled doors? What about the archtop doors? Those are the kind I am gonna try to make in the next year or two.

[CThomp]

Damn that's still cheaper than Lowes.

I talked to a few friends who know people. The locals down here network pretty hard. I'm making phone calls as I type this.

[CThomp]

My scanner is being ornery. Maybe dragon can post them.

[David]

I'll see if I can scan a draft of the kind I would like to make. If my scanner works, then I can post a jpg. I hear you about them being ornery. Scanners are little pests.

[Dragon]

I guess I should figure my scanner out... lol

[CThomp]

I now have two local cabinetry shops soon to be making offers. We'll see how this pans out. I'll try to get those plans up. One of the shops has an idea to modify the plans just a tad. I told him just to draw it up to see how the wife and I feel about it.

[CThomp]

I haven't gotten a bid yet from either company, it should take a few days.

[CThomp]

Thats a 20 hour drive Dragon...wow.

[David]

CThomp, I hope you are strongly considering his offer.

[CThomp]

Believe me I have seriously considered his offer. And it might end up being the best one.

But the thing of it is...and this makes me feel like a big d!ckhead for saying it.:( If I tell my wife that i'm going to give a builder from Arkansas that I met on an internet forum that may or may not be licensed or insured with Florida $12K to build our kitchen cabinets she'd likely freak out. Then she'd tell my parents and her parents and they'd freak out. Then she'd tell my coworkers and friends. Then they'd all have a massive intervention and tell me I was insane.:(

Now this isn't that I don't trust Dragon or his work. I've seen his work and it's amazing. But Florida is among the most paranoid states around after all the hurricanes and out of state contractors that come into the state. Alot of people have been taken for alot of money.

Please Please Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not bad mouthing Dragon or anyone. Even bringing this up makes me feel like an a$$hole. But because of what I said in the previous paragraph it has left most Floridians in a general state of contractor xenophobia. And believe me it sucks. This is why I was reluctant in the first place to look locally until I asked people that I know. There are alot of fly by night operations in Florida.

Yeah I know...I'm a d!ckhead.

[CThomp]

And I apologize for being a d!ckhead.

[giddonah]

So don't tell them where he's from. Just tell them when the cabinets will arrive.

[David]

Nah, being concerned does not mean being a dh. Perhaps Dragon would provide you with all his AR creditials. Perhaps his company has some brochures or something. I bet he has a list of references a mile long. And, you can probably find his phone number in the phone book. And can't you look up his business id thru some gov't service. Maybe such things would help alleviate the pain of crazed-in-laws!

[Dragon]

Oh geeze guys. You people are going to have me travelling if I don't keep an eye on you.

I didn't really seriously consider doing it, I was just playing around with the numbers involved to make the trip. Mileage and expenses.

But hmm... a vacation. Granted, a working vacation, but still... It has been awhile.

Ft. Myers during hurricane season. Yeah, that would be interesting.

You should be able to find someone locally, depending on how backed up they are at the moment, that can meet your timeline. Its all a matter of proper networking and making the right contact.

The point to all of this is that Kraftmaid is the one doing the ripping off. And stores like Lowes/Home Depot/etc. I'll let you in on a little secret. Lowes and Home Depot do not like contractors nor do they go want our business. Why? Because the uneducated public will pay more for less.

[David]

Oh geeze guys. You people are going to have me travelling if I don't keep an eye on you.
Sorry Dragon. I'd hate to make you take a vacation in sunny Florida.

You should be able to find someone locally, depending on how backed up they are at the moment, that can meet your timeline. Its all a matter of proper networking and making the right contact.
Timeline? Maybe. But what about cost? I dunno. Labor is less expensive in AR, and materials are too. EVERYTHING costs more in Florida.

The point to all of this is that Kraftmaid is the one doing the ripping off. And stores like Lowes/Home Depot/etc. I'll let you in on a little secret. Lowes and Home Depot do not like contractors nor do they go want our business. Why? Because the uneducated public will pay more for less.
I bet WalMart will be selling cabinets within 5 years.

[CThomp]

Hoooray! For me not being a d!ckhead. ;)

Right now Florida actually is sunny. Though i'd never come for vacation in the summer. It might be alot cheaper in the summer but holy crap is it hot.

Dragon is right...making connects is the key. I may actually be able to get granite countertops instead of fromica now because of connections. Though i'm not holding breath.

Hmmm...Cabinets from Walmart?...never happen unless they're made in China.

[Dragon]

I bet WalMart will be selling cabinets within 5 years.

You need to do a little research into who actually owns Lowes and Home Depot.

[David]

I thought HD was owned by that guy in Atlanta that started HD.
Lowes, I dunno.

[David]

Hmmm...Cabinets from Walmart?...never happen unless they're made in China.

Cars made in China will be here in 1 or 2 years. I'd bet houses will be delievered by WalMart within 10...back to the old Sears and Roebuck days.

[Vector]

You need to do a little research into who actually owns Lowes and Home Depot.

Both are publicly traded companies, and as such are owned by a lot of people.

I don't have easy access to a list of the major stockholders, and while there may be overlap between HD and LOW and other big stores, but that's still a lot different that complete ownership (see Wal-mart and Sam's Club).

I could easily see stores like Wal-Mart, K-Mart and Terget selling "flat-box" cabinets like Mill's Pride. It's hardly a step away from the "furniture" they sell now.

[CThomp]

Meeting with one of the cabinet makers this afternoon. His price is kinda high too but the cabinets are 100% solid wood. I'm curious about the other. The company I haven't heard from yet is a smaller operation I think.