shed roof porch, with a twist? [Archive] - Home Construction Forums

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NJank
07-08-2008, 01:17 PM
Ok, putting up a covered porch on the front of our split level (single story side) and I had a few roof questions. Planning a shed roof on a 10.5x21ft porch, tied back into the existing roof. Since I've never roofed a deck before, I have a couple basic design questions followed by a request for advice.

First, two pictures attached. (1) front yard top-down layout with porch. (2) Quick-porch layout a la Lowes to save you from my hand sketch.

The slight 'tweak' comes from an existing curved concrete walkway/steps to the driveway. I wanted to make use of this walkway as-is, and drop the steps right on top of them at a 45degree angle from a corner of the porch. The setback limits (to frame, steps don't count) prevent us from bringing out the porch far enough to have the stairs come out the side and drop onto the walk after the curve (~13ft), and my wife complained about shortening the porch (to ~7ft) so that they could go straight out the front as a neighbor had done a couple years back. So, the compromise was ~10-1/2 feet, a ~3.5ft 45degree corner lopped off, and stairs that drop right on the walkway. Yes. I'm that lazy about the concrete work for rerouting the walkway.

So, now, does my shed roof have to change significantly because of this missing corner? The end ceiling joist would cantilever over the stair notch by 2.5-3 feet. I assume I'd need to truss that end to better transfer weight to the post.

Next, would you do something other than a shed roof? Or, at least, something different at that corner. (for a shed, I couldn't think of anything different there.) I don't have the rise/run of my current roof right now, but our code minimum is 4/12, and my estimate for the main house would be something like 6 to 7. (that side of the roof has ~13-14ft run, so 6-7ft high)

Second question regards roof posts relative to deck posts. My wife would like decorative posts instead of extending the deck posts up to the roof beam. Is it crucial that the roof posts be over the deck posts? As long as they're over a beam, whats the post/post offset limit? For a shed roof, would that just be on the front under the roof beam as opposed to the sides under the joist? Looking at the quickie Lowes post layout, I realize I likely couldn't use that as-is due to the side cantilver.

My county has a nice code summary for decks, but no specs on the roof other than 2006 IRC. Before I head to the library to read that, are there any easy pointers or online references?

I'm planning on doing the porch myself, putting in some of the roof support/framing (maybe just stopping after the posts, maybe doing some of the roof frame. depends on complexity) and then contracting the rest. So, I'm mainly concerned about doing the deck in a way that won't make the rest of the job a bear. Of course, my stubbornness about the walk could have already shot that in the foot.

thoughts?

Joe Carola
07-08-2008, 02:18 PM
If your 45° is 3'6, that will bring you two ends in at 2'5-11/16". You can use 6x6 posts and sit a double 2x12 or a 3-1/2" x 11-7/8" lvl or whatever an Architect or Engineer will design for you and cantilever the 2-5-11/16" past the corner out to 21" and sit the rafters on there. I've done this quite a few times with/without ceiling joists by notching out the 6x6 to sit the girder in and bolting them into the back of the 6x6's.

Here's a drawing of what I think you're talking about.

Richard A Hetzel
07-08-2008, 02:52 PM
Someone will have to determine the ability of the beam that supports the deck to carry concentrated loads, if the porch columns don't align with the deck posts. The deck footings also have to be checked for their abilty to support the additional load of the roof. The cantilever as Joe has sketched is easy to calculate, but it must be calculated.

If you want to use decorative columns on the porch, the connection between column and beam above must be designed. And make sure you use thick-enough columns...almost any column will be structurally acceptable, but too-thin columns won't look right.

NJank
07-11-2008, 01:20 PM
Regarding the concentrated beam loads, I'm planning on kicking the posts out to the ends (no porch cantilevering except minimally against the house to accomodate the footer diameter. That will let me either extend those beams up to the roof, or mount roof posts directly over them. (I've looked up a couple different ways people tie separate roof posts to beams. Can an upside-down BCSZ Simpson post-cap do the job to put the post beam right on top of the ground post? (i'm running with the DCA6 dislike for unnotched side post attachment that would let me take the post straight up from ground to roof.) If I do a double beam notch into the post, that can't then extend up to the roof, right? Would seem a little off balance if I didn't have perfect beam fit into the groove.

And the fun doesn't stop there. I climbed up to get the actual roof slope, and it's only 5/12. (my estimate from a photo at an angle was a bit off. photo attached). The house is 26.8ft in depth, and with the overhang, the roof line starts at 9" above the front wall. So, at 4/12, with 1 foot overhang on the front of the porch, I'll never actually hit the roof. Also, turns out 4/12 min. isn't code, just 'a strong suggestion'. I could go 3/12 and just hit the roof at the peek (with the 1ft overhang), but I'd prefer to keep shingles >= 4/12. Neither of us are too keen on the old style metal roof. I know there are some other low slope material options (vinyl, rubber) but other than googling a few images, I'm not much familiar with them. There is a newer house near us with a brick red verticle rake metal porch roof that I kinda like the look of. something like this: http://www.metalroofing.com/v2/lightbox/uploads/large/large_2112.jpg

So, the other way would be to gable it instead. Shed and gable CAD images attached. With the shed, I had a good idea of how to tie onto the other roof. I'll have to look up what's involved with the gable, especially since I'm brick and cant mount a ledger for ceiling joists. Have to cut back the house overhang and mount to a roof joist there. (main house rafters, not trussed). Or, I use posts on the back wall to support a rear beam. But I still can't tie that into the brick, and they'd have to cantilever a bit (since the ground posts can't be flush against the house).

If anyone has a good image of a gable tie where it meets the roof so I get an idea of what happens there, it'd be appreciated. I'll work out the footing loads and frame/joist sizing tonight. Planning on putting some holes in the ground this weekend.