Crisis - Help - Fast - !!!!!!!!

[layman]

The subcontractor responsible for the footer and stem wall shortened part of our house by two feet.

The foundation is a footer, stem and slab (with rebar in slab).

The back wall that needs to be moved out two feet is 32' 6" wide.

First, Can this be done and what is the best way to add the additional two feet of foundation (that is 32' 6" wide)


The plumbing for the master bath and one full bath needs to be moved two feet to accomidate the correction. The plumbing is PLASTIC not copper.

Second, how will they lengthen the plastic that's sticking out of the slab, and who bad of structural damage is this going to cause my slab?

[mjpliv]

Has this design been stamped by an engineer at any point? Can you tell us the size and orientation of the rebar in the slab? How thick is the slab? Was the slab poured as part of the footing/foundation walls (monolithic syle) or was it poured after?

And more important, how the heck did this happen???

[mjpliv]

Another question -

Are you acting as the general contractor or did you hire one? Who was responsible for hiring the sub-trade and therefore responsible for the results?

[layman]

Hello,

I am simply the home owner who went by the site. The framers were working and approached me with some measurment problems. The more we tried to figure it out, the more I realized that something fundamentally was wrong. So we finally measured the outside wall and discovered a two foot defeciency.

I immediately notified the builder who said that he would meet with the subs in the morning to attempt to set a corrective course of action.

First, the footer was poured (with the original incorrect measurments). Then the stem wall was poured on top of the footer (in forms). The forms were removed, then the plumbing was roughed in. Sand was placed on the plumbing and then the rebar (half inch) was placed in a grid fashion. Finally, the 3500psi slab was poured.

[mjpliv]

You, as the owner, have to decide if you are prepared to accept a finished product that is smaller than the plan or stop construction untill the foundation problems are resolved.

Although this is a less-than-perfect situation you are dealing with the easiest foundation type to correct. With that said, I would still enlist the services of an engineer to -

1. determine the best place to cut the existing foundation/footings and slab to expose the required amount of rebar.

2. design the connections between the existing concrete and any extensions.

3. to inspect the required excavations and replacement of soils excavated in error.

4. to inspect the installation of any new rebar, rods, ties and or dowells prior to pouring any new cement.

I would suggest that this engineer be hired by yourself and will be representing your interests. This should be done with the full knowledge and consent of the general contractor with a writen aggreement that the cost of such engineering services will be either deducted from the contracted price of the home or that you will be reimbursed prior to the closing.

There will still be the possibility of cracks developing in the footings/foundations/slab but these will be supported by a properly designed system of rebar. The structural integrity should not suffer.

[layman]

Thank you for the quick response.

What about the plastic plumbing that is running throughout the slab. Can they lengthen the plastic pipes to accomidate the 2' corrections?

Am I correct from your opinion, that this is not a simple matter of adding an additional two feet on the back wall and cutting holes in the existing slab to lengthen and reposition the plumbing in the master and hall bath?

[Rich]

I would suggest against just adding 2' back on the structure. You would probably have to drill and epoxy dowels of rebar into the existing. It'll never be the same.. and why pay the same for an inferior product.

If you do as mjpliv (which is excellent advice) stated and chip back to expose the correct amount of rebar it would be pretty easy to chip to the 2" pipe and extend it.

[mjpliv]

When you say "the plumbing that is running throughout the slab" do you mean under the slab? Or is it actually encased in the concrete? Or perhaps you have an in-slab heating system?

[layman]

I think I understand now.

You are suggesting that the current stem wall running that 32'6" should be completely cut and removed, and then, the slab itself should be cut back until a sufficient amount of rebar from the existing slab is exposed.

Once the rebar is exposed, they should then dig a new footer that would extend the house the needed two feet. Once the trench for the extended footer is dug, should they try to tie into the existing footer? After the additional footer is poured, they should then pour a new stem wall on that footer, and connecting to existing stem by drill into it? Finally, they should put new sand in the extended area, and pour the new concrete that will grab the exposed rebar that is jutting out of the edge of the slab to which we had cut back to?

Assuming the above is an understanding of what you suggest, would you further suggest that we tie additional rebar onto the exposed rebar jutting out of the existing slab to provide even greater tensel strength and hopefully prevent a futuresectional break in the slab?

thanks, look forwrd to your reply because i meet with the builder and his subs in the morning and want to sound somewhat knowledgeable.

[layman]

Oh, the plumbing was roughed in after the stem wall was put up. After they had roughed in the plumbing, they then covered the plumbing with sand (except what rises above the height of the stem wall).

After the sand was put in, they then put a rebar grid situated mostly throughout the whole slab. After the rebar was put in, they then poured the slab. Plumbing conections stick above the slab.

So, except what rises out of the slab, the plumbing runs below the sand, that is below the rebar and concrete.

All climate control vents will be in the attick. Only plumbing for the sewage, hot and cold water runs below the sand that is below the slab.

[mjpliv]

Thats pretty much the long and short of it but you are listening to advice given to you by two people who haven't been able to "kick the tires" of your project. The advice that I offer is from personal experience. However, no two projects are the same so I can't presume to be able to give you definitive answers.

Seriously consider the services of an engineer! By all means meet with your contractor to discuss the problem but the situation demands professional input. Its money well spent, and if you handle it well, you won't be footing that bill anyway.

[layman]

...but the bottom line is, if they do it right, and catch the rebar currently in the existing slab, it can be corrected without me having to worry for the next twenty years whether the back part of my house is gonna break off?

[mjpliv]

There are tens of thousands renovations in North America every year that involve an addition to a house and I have never personally seen one of these additions "break off".

My view of your situation is that if the extension is designed and executed properly given the soil conditions, bearing capacity, existing concrete and rebar installations then you need not be concerned about the structural integrity of your new home.

Will there be some trade offs? Sure! You increase the chances of minor cracks in the foundation because of the cold joints in all three components - the footings/frost walls/slab.

You also have to consider your other two options -

1. Accept the smaller foundation size and negotiate a lower price from your contractor.

2. Stop work, hire a lawyer and try to get the whole works removed and rebuilt in it's entirety.

Make a call to an engineer and simply ask him/her to evaluate your situation without making any commitments to engineering work itself. See what he/she says! A little peace of mind goes a long way!

Best of luck to you. Post some pictures of the project on the board sometime.

[layman]

Thank you. I'll try to get some pictures.