Safety issues

[mjpliv]

I had a look at the website that was posted - the guy in the pictures is working without fall restraints. Don't take this as an endorsement of the practice.

My rule of thumb for cut shingle valleys is to wind up with the cut edge facing away from the curb view. Looks a lot better!

This is in response to this thread
http://www.construction-resource.com/forum/ftopic941.html

[grumpydasmurf]

LOL fall restraints. Have YOU ever tried working with them? Trust me when I say the guys look for excuses to remove them.

[mjpliv]

Anybody does that on one of my sites and they can collect their tools and go home for a day, second time they go home for a week and the third time they go home for good. I don't care how "difficult" it is to work in them - they save life and limb!

[Rich]

I always find it funny that people are willing to take the risks and not listen to the safety messages that we put out each week. The safety program we have in place is there to keep your head, eyes, ears, and life intact. It's not there to hinder how you work. There are so many different fall restraint systems out there that it just doesn't make sense not to spend the time finding one that works for you and your crew.
A good motto to follow is "Send everyone home safe". If they don't want to work safe then they don't need to work on my job. One accident can cripple a company.

[grumpydasmurf]

Yeah I asked have YOU ever used them... as in do you know how cumbersome and actually how clumsy they are? Do you know first hand how easy it is to trip over someones rope? My point is in some situations it's actually less safe.

We have given our guys all saftey training, and bottom line is it's their decision, although OSHA sees it differently. There are sometimes valid reasons for not wearing the ropes.

You guys run yoru sites your way, but my question still stands. What's your hands on experience?

[grumpydasmurf]

One other point, you've nothing to worry about. You are GC's. Your subs do the work. Your subs sign their lives away in paper work and hold you harmless. You probably also throw in "time is of the essence" clauses so if osha shuts you down for a day or two you just back charge the sub who had the accident to pay the other crews overtime to catch back up on schedule.

Damned sneaky GC's have thought of everything! Just one more reason why I dislike new construction.

[doyle]

Safety ropes are no problem for me. I know that I bought them for a purpose and I don't want any more broken ribs (scaffolding incident).

Beware the slippery plastic peel-away backing that's on ice dam. When you peel it off, make sure you throw it all the way off the roof! I stepped on piece of that stuff and boom!, down I went, sliding down the roof. My helper was quick enough on his feet that he simply stepped on my rope and I stopped just before going off the edge of the roof. The rope would have stopped me from hitting the ground, but it's still mighty scary to be falling, and being helpless. It certainly reinforced my policy of safety ropes....particularly on 2-story roofs.

[Rich]

That's untrue. We perform concrete and masonry self-work. And when we are doing a 12 story building you are always running around on site. 12 stories up with no floor - only steel beams and I'm going to be tired off.
When I was doing residential we did all the concrete, masonry, framing, roofing, siding, trim, etc. We subcontracted drywall, painting, MEP, and that's about it.
And I do have first hand experience with working safely on every project I've ever worked on - while still keeping production high. It only takes a little pre-planning and execution of that plan. It's always seemed like an obvious choice for me. Saying that - your previous post doesn't make sense to me either.
So I trip over another guys rope? Who cares - I'm tied off so I'm safe. No safety restraint and I trip on a board or whatever - see ya.

One other point, you've nothing to worry about. You are GC's. Your subs do the work. Your subs sign their lives away in paper work and hold you harmless. You probably also throw in "time is of the essence" clauses so if osha shuts you down for a day or two you just back charge the sub who had the accident to pay the other crews overtime to catch back up on schedule.

Damned sneaky GC's have thought of everything! Just one more reason why I dislike new construction.

[grumpydasmurf]

When was the last time you tripped on a shingle roof. That's like tripping on a sand paper floor. It's not fun and your guaranteed scabs for weeks.

[Rich]

Tripping on anything above 5' will lead to at least a sore wrist or something similar. Falling off a roof has a little more risk associated with it. I've come off a roof - luckily I landed on a scaffolding before going all the way down. That's when we started implementing a safety program for our company.

[Rich]

One point I want to make also is that if OSHA sites a subcontractor on a job the GC can also be fined for the violation. Here is a table (if it comes out right) showing the maximum fines for a violation. IMO - the numbers are high enough that all the profit on a simple remodel would be down the drain.
Type of Violation Minimum Penalty Per Violation Maximum Penalty Per Violation
Other-than-serious $7,000
Serious $100* $7,000
Posting $7,000
Willful $5,000 $70,000
Willful, with fatality, $250,000/$500,000 or six months
first conviction in prison or both **
Willful, with fatality, $250,000/$500,000 or one year
second conviction in prison or both **
Repeated $5,000 $70,000
Failure to abate $7,000 per day
* Set as OSHA policy in the Field Inspection Reference Manual (FIRM)
** The monetary criminal fine is set by Title 18 of the U.S. Code (Crimes and Criminal
Procedure), Section 3571, which states that individuals found guilty of an offense may not be
fined more than $250,000, and organizations not more than $500,000.
Well it didn't come out very well but you can see some of the numbers. Essentially if you have a Other-than serious violation you can be fined up to 7000.. company could probably recover from that in a couple small jobs. A willful violation (2nd offense) results in a maximum violation of 10 times that. Hard to recover from in just a few jobs profits.

[doyle]

Doesn't OSHA now require the use of a safety harness for anybody working more than 48" off the ground? Not sure who told me that, might have been a worker at Home Depot. Come on....48"???

[Rich]

It's actually above 5'. Above that you need some type of fall arrest system. So when you're on your bakers scaffold put the planks at less than 5' :)
I'm going to see if I can seperate the safety items in this post to another post.. kind of hijacked this thread.

[Rich]

mj - I apologize for editing your post. I just didn't want people to wonder what you were talking about :).

[mjpliv]

No problem with the edit!

With regard to personal experience -

I have been through the training and have had to use the harnesses and ropes. Yes, I have spent hours setting up safety rails, tearing them down and setting them up again. I have had to wear steel toed boots and a hard hat when its 80 degrees out. I have had to go out and buy a longer ladder so it would project 4' farther than I intended to go. And the list goes on and on.

Sure, they are a pain in the ass but they work.

[mjpliv]

A couple of years ago we were putting a new roof on an apartment building. The OSB sheathing had frost on it first thing in the morning and the safety officer (manditory daily safety meeting) told everyone to stay off the roof surface untill he gave the OK. One new guy, eager to please, jumped up on the sheathing without a harness "just for a second" to grab something just out of reach from the old level roof deck. It took about a second for him to slip on the frost and wound up sliding face down and face first down a 4/12 roof slope, under the safety rails and into a half frozen pile of snow 3-1/2 storeys below. Although he survived, he was in traction for quite some time. He died two years later while still a young man.

While drywalling a stairwell one of our workers used a regular 2x10 as a scaffold plank to span a 8' opening. The board snapped in the middle and he fell about 12' to the concrete floor shattering both ankles. He will never regain the full use of those ankles again.

Both of these people should have been using fall restraint systems. But hind sight is always 20/20.

[Rich]

In construction there are always going to be those times where you don't follow the safety guidelines set forth by OSHA or your company. No matter how loud or long you preach about going home safe things happen. It becomes even harder to enforce safety guidelines when you are really pushing to get something done. I've done many "shortcuts" myself to get the job done.
Aside from that - you should take every precaution available to keep you and your people safe. I preach everyday about safety glasses to our workforce - and I've heard every excuse in the book. You need to play the what if game with them for awhile and eventually they pick it up - what if this guy over here begins cutting a piece of wood and you get a chunk of something in your eye? What if it cuts your cornea? Etc..etc.
On the corporate level - what if you're doing a million dollar home. Figure the profit margin of 10% to make it easy. $100,000 is gone if you have someone injured on the job. You even gouge more if OSHA hears of something happening and they come out for an inspection and they fine you for a repeat offense. Insurance will most likely take care of the injury - but what about your increases in coverage? What if that employee comes back to the company because you don't have a safety program in place?
I could go on and on preaching about the benefits of following safety guidelines and implementing a useable program for companies but many times it'll fall on deaf ears. I hear "I've been doing it this way for 20 years". What if the 21st year you fall and break your leg or back? The next 20 won't be so good. Just some thoughts to think about..

[kramer]

How are fall restraint systems (or safety harnesses) typically utilized/set up?

[Rich]

It depends in what isntance you are using it..
leading edge condition, height condition, etc.

[kramer]

Is there a general guidebook or something that can be referred to depending on the situation? I assume OSHA would have something available or maybe online?

[Rich]

You can purchase OSHA manuals online... builderbooks.com you'll want 29 CRR Part 1926. That will give the guidelines of what OSHA requires. Essentially tie off within x' of this or that, controlled access zones, etc. There are other books and forms that will give actual conditions and solutions. Here is one for residential - http://store.builderbooks.com/cgi-bin/builderbooks/149?id=eC2Lisvn&mv_pc=93

[mjpliv]

If you are buying the gear from a safety supply company then they should be able to offer a quick training seminar included in the price.

[Rich]

Definately.. Miller is who we buy all our gear from.

[koha]

This was written by a big project industrial construction worker but it should be a lesson for all

Fall Protection / A History

First we called them sissy belts. Each tool trailer had a couple of them but we used them more often as tools rather than safety devices. Our cowboy attitude discouraged us from ever becoming dependant on them. Any display of fear or hesitation would certainly bring criticism, mistrust, harassment and possibly even termination. After all how could you get anything done?

Prior to the debut of OSHA the cost of construction projects were estimated in terms of dollars and lives. The general rule of thumb was a life for each million dollars. Falls were by far the most common cause of fatal accidents.

During the early seventies the advent of OSHA and the rising cost of litigation caused companies to begin changing their attitude about personal fall protection. We were than required to wear safety belts but most of us were negligent about securing them. Some of us were downright stubborn. A far too familiar sight was a worker lying broken on the ground with the lanyard of his safety belt tied into a knot neatly out of his way. After all how could we get anything done?

While making surprise inspections OSHA levied heavy fines on the contractor and worker as well. Agents commonly gathered evidence from offsite positions with the use of telescopic photo lenses. Insurance companies put heavy pressure on their client construction companies. By the end of the seventies most of us were accustomed to using safety belts and were encouraged to use them properly.

The eighties brought about the concept of 100 % tie off. A worker was than required to have two lanyards attached to his safety belt. If used properly the worker would be secured by at least one lanyard 100% of the time. No longer could he walk a beam or even move around freely. Moving from one place to another turned into a monotonous chore of fastening and unfastening the safety lanyards. How could we ever get anything done?

By the nineties the risk management bean counters began to take a closer look at injuries caused by safety belts. The safety belt could most certainly save a life but at the same time could cause serious back injuries. While safety experts instructed us to wear the lanyard in the back to avoid back injury the state of the art belt had “D” rings on each side slightly in front. This design made the belt handy to sit in like a work belt though it was not approved for that purpose.

The next evolution in personal fall protection was the full body safety harness. By the end of the nineties the full body safety harness was in use almost universally around the construction industry. Today if a worker is injured from a fall it can almost certainly be proven that he violated a safety rule.

The harness is a most restrictive and uncomfortable device. About 12 to 15 lbs of weight is added to the already heavy load of equipment and tools. It effectively covers all the pockets. It does not easily fit over or under cold weather gear. In a tight spot it snags on every thing like Velcro. It does not easily accommodate the wearing of a tool belt or a bolt bag. Walking in it creates the look of a duck waddle. To this date no one has ever invented a safe lanyard clasp that can be easily manipulated with one gloved hand.

Uncomfortable and restrictive though it may be we are still getting things done. Only now we are getting things done much safer. Without criticism we can now protect ourselves for a long career and our corporate benefactors are reaping a better bottom line.

[bkrahmer]

I'm glad I got a sport-climbing harness instead of a construction harness for roofing my house... $35, weighs less than a pound, and not uncomfortable at all.

[koha]

I'm glad I got a sport-climbing harness instead of a construction harness for roofing my house... $35, weighs less than a pound, and not uncomfortable at all.

That may be a good personal solution but issuing them to employees may have some draw backs. If they don’t have the OSHA approval tags there may be compliance, insurance and litigation issues. Some additional training may also be required